Why only one ship might be OK

[ezra-r]

I agree with the OP.

One "upgradable" ship is enough, and you can control different types of drones I guess.

This will help Egosoft keep the stats clean and not end up with a mess like Terran Conflict and Albion Prelude.

Let the community add other possibilities and Egosoft focus on the core gaming experience and the result will be a much better gaming experience.

[Hemmingfish]

What should have been done :

The small, minor, M6 for the play should be dock able with any other ship above an M6.

Personnally, I am surprised the M3 players haven't been more vocal about the loss of their little fighters.

I tend to be a Capital Driver, but an M6 denies fighter jocks, and the former of a lot of their fun.

I'm an M8 pilot most of the time, which is completely gone in Rebirth. Right now I've completely given up arguing the point because people will just say "BUT YOU CAN UPGRADE THE SKUNK! / YOU CAN FLY DRONES!" and pretend it's not gone.

Just taking a wild guess here, but I imagine the majority of non-capital flyers who have a strong opinion on the matter have already said their bit and left the forum.

(Which I'm unable to do because I want to log in one day and see a sticky that makes everything better )

[firestorm79]

like a lot of people have mentioned, once you fly the Hyerion, you'll very rarely fly anything else.

Because the Hyperion was an OP cheat ship that killed the concept of choice by being better than every other choice. M6s were already popular player ships, and the Hyperion is either the best or close to the best in every single category.


HP was:

-Close to the fastest M6(except for the crazy speed of the SB)

-Had the most cargo bay for an M6

-Close to the best steering

-Only M6 with a docking port for carrying around your kestrel and another fighter.

- Strongest hull for an M6

- Strongest shields for an M6

- Largest weapon capacitor for an M6

- Best weapon regen for an M6

- Most turrets on an M6

Its only downside was a slight reduction in weapon choice.

Nobody 'settled' on the Hyperion. They picked literally the most effective ship in the game because to not pick it is to deliberately gimp themselves. That is not a good thing. If there is no consequence to a choice there is no choice at all.

Some would argue that the SB is a better player ship. Some would argue that M7Ms are OP'd. Some would say flying around an Austere with full tomahawk load out is OP'd.

The fact that th Hype is so popular isn't because it's an OP'd cheat ship, but because it's the best all rounder. And if the skunk can be upgraded to anything near a hype then I think most people won't even feel the need to fly anything else, apart from the novelty of flying a specialist ship from time to time.

But that is my point. If skunk can eventually be upgraded to Hype levels then you won't need to fly anything else.

[CutterJohn1]

Just to correct you there: Split Dragon is also faster than a Hyperion, ATF Vali beats it for shielding and there are several other M6s that equal it in that area. You're also missing the Hyperion's most crippling disadvantage, namely, you can't actually buy one--and if you *could* buy one it would cost you upwards of 40 million credits, which is more than most M7s!

Thanks for the corrections. I had forgotten about the Vali. Still, that just proves my point. The vali has 1200 shields, but only goes 110. The Dragon is 3 faster than the Hyperion, but has only 400 mj of shields. Both clearly have downsides to their strengths.

The Hyperion is all strength. Its top or near top in every single respect. Yeah, you have to cap it, which was about the only reason I didn't think it was completely ridiculous. Still, as a player ship, once capped, you have it forever. Due to saves, the player ship is invulnerable to loss.

Some would argue that the SB is a better player ship. Some would argue that M7Ms are OP'd. Some would say flying around an Austere with full tomahawk load out is OP'd.

The fact that th Hype is so popular isn't because it's an OP'd cheat ship, but because it's the best all rounder. And if the skunk can be upgraded to anything near a hype then I think most people won't even feel the need to fly anything else, apart from the novelty of flying a specialist ship from time to time.

But that is my point. If skunk can eventually be upgraded to Hype levels then you won't need to fly anything else.

Yes, the M7Ms and M8s are extremely OP as well. I simply did not use them in my games. The AI had absolutely no capacity to use nor deal with the missile barrages. They were very poorly implemented.

No, the Hyperion is not the best all rounder. It is the best M6, period. Unless you want to go stupid fast, then the SB is for you. Its not a jack of all trades with average stats. It is a master of all trades with best/near best stats in every single category. All of the other M6s have strengths and weaknesses. Tradeoffs that make you think hard about which you want to use.

The hyperion was a problem, not a solution.

[GebürtigerTerraner]

like a lot of people have mentioned, once you fly the Hyerion, you'll very rarely fly anything else.

Because the Hyperion was an OP cheat ship that killed the concept of choice by being better than every other choice. M6s were already popular player ships, and the Hyperion is either the best or close to the best in every single category.


HP was:

-Close to the fastest M6(except for the crazy speed of the SB)

-Had the most cargo bay for an M6

-Close to the best steering

-Only M6 with a docking port for carrying around your kestrel and another fighter.

- Strongest hull for an M6

- Strongest shields for an M6

- Largest weapon capacitor for an M6

- Best weapon regen for an M6

- Most turrets on an M6

Its only downside was a slight reduction in weapon choice.

Nobody 'settled' on the Hyperion. They picked literally the most effective ship in the game because to not pick it is to deliberately gimp themselves. That is not a good thing. If there is no consequence to a choice there is no choice at all.

Some would argue that the SB is a better player ship. Some would argue that M7Ms are OP'd. Some would say flying around an Austere with full tomahawk load out is OP'd.

The fact that th Hype is so popular isn't because it's an OP'd cheat ship, but because it's the best all rounder. And if the skunk can be upgraded to anything near a hype then I think most people won't even feel the need to fly anything else, apart from the novelty of flying a specialist ship from time to time.

But that is my point. If skunk can eventually be upgraded to Hype levels then you won't need to fly anything else.

Of course it is op.The stats don't lie.

Having only one ship is only good and justified if the plot of the game is AMAZING,because that's one of the main reason they decided to go this way.

[Night Nord]

Having only one ship is only good and justified if the plot of the game is AMAZING,because that's one of the main reason they decided to go this way.

Plus lack of time and manpower. And I bet plot won't be "AMAZING" for the same reason.

[Noimageavaiable]

Having only one ship is only good and justified if the plot of the game is AMAZING,because that's one of the main reason they decided to go this way.

Didn't they say they went with one ship because they really wanted interiors and didn't have the resources to model one for every ship? Which is really shortsighted of them, since this is a game people play for hundreds of hours and they sacrifice diversity for a feature that will become pointless at best, annoying at worst after maybe five hours.

[Lorien]

Having only one ship is only good and justified if the plot of the game is AMAZING,because that's one of the main reason they decided to go this way.

Didn't they say they went with one ship because they really wanted interiors and didn't have the resources to model one for every ship? Which is really shortsighted of them, since this is a game people play for hundreds of hours and they sacrifice diversity for a feature that will become pointless at best, annoying at worst after maybe five hours.

So what do you want to happen? Wait another year or two (or however long it would take) until Egosoft can get the necessary assets developed and coding inserted into the engine just because YOU would be bored with one ship after just a few hours of playing the game?

Me? I'm looking forward to November.

[Noimageavaiable]

So what do you want to happen? Wait another year or two (or however long it would take) until Egosoft can get the necessary assets developed and coding inserted into the engine just because YOU would be bored with one ship after just a few hours of playing the game?

Scrap the whole ship interior idea and divert the freed up assets to model a few different cockpits for fighters, corvettes, capital ships and freighters. Unlike the whole walking around thing the cockpit would be an integral part of the UI and as such enhance the actual gameplay of flying through space, rather than a gimmick that will wear out its welcome sooner rather than later.

[jasonbarron]

Having only one ship is only good and justified if the plot of the game is AMAZING,because that's one of the main reason they decided to go this way.

Didn't they say they went with one ship because they really wanted interiors and didn't have the resources to model one for every ship? Which is really shortsighted of them, since this is a game people play for hundreds of hours and they sacrifice diversity for a feature that will become pointless at best, annoying at worst after maybe five hours.

What part of them not having the resources to implement one for every ship is "short sighted" of them? Seems pretty self explanatory to me.

[Noimageavaiable]

What part of them not having the resources to implement one for every ship is "short sighted" of them? Seems pretty self explanatory to me.

Read my post again. It is short-sighted to divert their, as you yourself admit, limited resources toward a feature that only adds to the game for the first couple hours and prohibits the implementation of features that are a long-standing trademark of the X series (namely multiple ships), rather than a feature that would not only improve the entire core gameplay indefinitely but also compliment the multiple ship feature. If you only have so many modelers you have to prioritize those features that offer the biggest improvement to overall gameplay, which ship interiors simply do not.

[jasonbarron]

Not really "admitting" to anything, Noimageavailable....and I disagree with the subjective pre-evaluation that the cockpit view of the Skunk will get old in a few hours. Personally, I think the cockpit looks great and I can easily picture spending hundreds of hours flying around in it.

The devs had limited resources, so they chose to make one ship special...as opposed to multiple ships generic. Again, seems pretty self explanatory.

[Geek]

Any ship *I* choose to fly is special.
I do not need a big "special ! (yes really really)" sticker attached to it by someone else.

[infohata]

There are some things not clear in this discussion.

You will be able to fly just one ship, yes.. but that does not mean you will not be able to indirectly control all your fleets. And what good do have a collection of 50 hangared super-outkitted ships if you can fly just one in direct control anyway?

In X3 I usually always choose, kit out and fly just one primary ship (Hype!), with some utility ships like a custom superfast M5 (Valkyrie Explorer), M3+, maybe a xjump TP+ (Mantis), and so on. Now TP looks like abolished concept as you can have life support in whole of yous ship, and others are just replaced by drones.

Even with balanced mechanics, it was too expensive to equip every ship you'd like to fly at any time of your game with turbo boosters, trade extensions and another big deal of upgrades which AI wouldn't use anyway and they usually cost another hull, if not 20 hulls in some cases. Don't say you always cargo transfer all the upgrades between ships you jump through in the middle of the battle.

So far I see getting rid of multiple ships and making control of one ship immersive and as expanded as feasibly possible in game a good choice. Egosoft also got rid of need of rebalancing 100s of ships, without fear that there will be the one Hype, what will be the goal choice for 85% players as a player ship only because it has just awesome specs (weapon arrangement, 2 M3+ bays, nice balance of shield/speed/etc), even if everyone hates Paranid. Now it's just perfect - the only need of balance is all game against one ship. The saved resources can be invested in making the flight of that one ship a dream, and then making the flight environment more like a dream.

Keep up the good work Egosoft! Evolutin to the X universe.

[ICO_hr]

I think most people just forget that XR is completly new game.A lot from the old games is gone or re-designed to fit the new vision of Ego for XR.This is the beggining of new era for X games and imho one good looking and with diverse capabilities (i hope) ship with cockpit is fine.They will add the rest i'm sure.

Btw i'm also for many ships dont get me wrong but for now i'm fine with just one.Its not a big deal really.Also when the mod tools become available lets hope we will have the option to add other ships with cockpits and everything.It wont take long until someone add all Star Citizen ships in XR, i bet on that.

[infohata]

...It wont take long until someone add all Star Citizen ships in XR, i bet on that.

As far as I saw, you will not have the ability to pilot single crew ship in X:R. It's just not designed to. You'll need multi-crew ship. And you'll probably need it bigger than Freelancer, Constellation, and definitely bigger than all the single seat fighters revealed today, and funny enough, 300i looks like M5-M4 at best, while noobship Aurora looks M3-ish, if not Springblossom size (still 1seater).

[Noimageavaiable]

Not really "admitting" to anything, Noimageavailable....and I disagree with the subjective pre-evaluation that the cockpit view of the Skunk will get old in a few hours. Personally, I think the cockpit looks great and I can easily picture spending hundreds of hours flying around in it.

The devs had limited resources, so they chose to make one ship special...as opposed to multiple ships generic. Again, seems pretty self explanatory.

Did you even read what I wrote? I'm talking about walkable interiors not cockpits. Those will get stale after a few hours whereas cockpits as an UI element remain integral to the gameplay a hundred hours in, which is why Egosoft should divert resources to give many ships cockpits, rather than give one ship an interior. To put it as bluntly as possible for you: multiple ships with cockpits = good, one ship with an interior = bad.

[jasonbarron]

Thank you for being "blunt" and making your point clearer, Noimageavailable, because you weren't really making yourself that clear in the first place. I still don't agree with you.

How do you know ship interiors will get stale after only a few hours? I think ship interiors sound pretty cool, at least in the sense that we'll have an interior on the Skunk.

Plus, it still comes down to the fact that the devs had to make a design choice given their limited resources

[Noimageavaiable]

How do you know ship interiors will get stale after only a few hours? I think ship interiors sound pretty cool, at least in the sense that we'll have an interior on the Skunk.

Experience from other games that had similar features. When I first played Freelancer I thought the same way about station interiors but after a few hours of playing I had seen them all and was just trying to click through them as quickly as possible to get to the things I actually cared about: the missions and wares of the station. XR will fare no better. All the pretty interior scenery and eye candy will get boring and stale once you've seen it a hundred times and all that will be left is the actual gameplay. Which is precisely why Egosoft would do better to spend resources on things with actual impact on the gameplay, they last much, much longer.

Plus, it still comes down to the fact that the devs had to make a design choice given their limited resources

Yes, that's the entire point of this discussion: Egosoft had to make a choice and they chose poorly.

[ICO_hr]

Yes, that's the entire point of this discussion: Egosoft had to make a choice and they chose poorly.

Well, they chose quality over quantity.This is the right choice in this industry every frakin time.Personaly i dont want more sh.t but half baked.They allways can scale up from here.We'll get other ships, but not on release.