Three Months

[Playbahnosh]

So, here we are, three months after Rebirth's release. I took a long time off, waiting for the emotions to cool down, but looking around now, I think the facts speak for themselves. The game vanished from sales charts, gaming media and communities. The forums are deserted. The few reviews that are still around, almost all condemn the game to oblivion (with a metascore of 33). Virtually nobody is playing this anymore. So much for the "huge success", huh?

Sure, there are sill some rabid fans who will snarl and bite at anyone who dares to bring these points up, but sadly, nobody can make this unhappen. Especially this forum, that now looks like the aftermath of a nuclear war. Almost 90% of the threads so far are about bugs, crashes, performance issues, rage, sadness, refund requests and lamentation about how broken Rebirth is. I reviewed the game when it came out, and I can safely say, it was the hardest and most thankless assignment I had to do in 9 years.

Some players are still hopeful, saying "it's going to be patched" and "be patient". Why? The game is still broken after three months of constant patching. That is simply unacceptable. Not just for this game, but for any game. But as been said before, the bugs are not the problem. Bugs can be fixed.

As many others also stated, the real problem is the underlying mechanics, that the game is fundamentally broken, regardless of any superficial bugs. The very concept of Rebirth is broken. It's culmination of desperation, trepidation, false expectations and bad decisions all across the board. The devs threw out everything that made the X series what it was, and filled the holes with stupid gimmicks and broken promises. The results speak for themselves. A smaller, but extremely devoted and tightly knit community wasn't enough for them. Now, they lost everything.

This is an unmitigated disaster for everyone involved. As much for the devs as for the players. They took one of the best space sim series in gaming history and took it for a nosedive headfirst into the ground. It's really sad. But the worst is how they treated their own community: ignorance, lies upon lies and taking everyone for complete idiots. Not only not owning up to their own failure and admitting they made a mistake, but they even tried to play Rebirth off as a "huge success", completely ignoring the tidal wave of rage crashing against them from day one. That's not only sad, it's plain insulting.

Sure, the Rebirth proponents can say, that I'm the vocal minority, a stupid hater, a troll or whatever, but that still won't change anything. I was a devoted fan of the series for many years, and I really hate to see it go down like this. X deserved better. So much better.

[isbent]

Yeah, the whole thing is very disappointing. I was looking forward to this since hearing about it, even recommended it to a few friends, who most likely hate me now given how much I extolled the virtues of previous titles in the series.

Having discovered X3TC (in which I logged 444 hours, and I'm still nowhere near finished with it) I was blown away by something that fit so well what I was looking for. Lost of ships, the ability to dock ships on carriers, big ass flag ships, an interesting economy system, lots to do.

I was able to play Rebirth for maybe an hour before giving up.
The sector of space I found myself in lived up to my expectations, and that's basically it. Everything inside the ship just pissed me off. The minimap and UI was far too constricting, and in the name of immersion, forced me to interact with the dippy console. And I mean the map........ guys come on, did anyone on the team play it; what the hell did you think of it? I couldn't use my joystick, and mouse at the same time. This is just stuff that shut it down for me in less than an hour. I didn't even have a chance to find broken shit. So, as I love the previous titles, with the hope it would vastly improve, I shelved it, so as not to spoil it for myself. But reading allot of the feedback, I'm afraid I haven't got much to look forward to.

I guess I'll try back in another 3 months.
QQ

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

The game is working great now, there are some bugs when ships are exchanging goods with stations in the same zone as player´s location, but even those can be easly solved by removing/adding your ship to squad and giving the order again.
Except for that, I havent found any problems.

[Olterin]

Eh, I made much the same choice of taking a break after trying to play in soon after release, and ... I don't necessarily agree that it's a broken mess. It's missing features, yes (ones that were apparently intended to be there on release, like, smaller ships), but a "broken mess" is something that isn't playable. I found the game to be very much playable as of 1.24, with maybe one or two minor bugs that I came across (not sure whether it was the AI being stupid or a genuine bug) - heck, I wasn't annoyed to death while playing the campaign (yet). So it is steadily improving.



... However: the lack of communication from Egosoft with regards to next patch plans is slightly worrying, to say the least. I'm dearly hoping (but not fully counting on) that more complete fleet controls (as in, the other 95% that are missing, imo), proper AI collision detection (*cough*), smaller ships and yes, smarter AI will get worked on now that most of the bugs have been squashed. The game has a long way to go yet, but it's moving - seeing how one of the latest patches introduced a (small) feature (that yes, should have been there from the start, but heh...) in the targeting controls, it seems that Egosoft is indeed slowly transitioning into the feature update phase of their 3-step-plan.

I wouldn't count this studio and game out just yet.

As for the forums ... I'm not sure whether it's just people having left entirely or waiting for more improvements to be made before returning. Did anyone, per chance, conduct a survey on this?

[navetta]

The game is working great now, there are some bugs when ships are exchanging goods with stations in the same zone as player´s location, but even those can be easly solved by removing/adding your ship to squad and giving the order again.
Except for that, I havent found any problems.

lol, way to miss the point. Did you even read the post? He said bugs arent the problem. Horrible design decisions are.

[Mordin Ashe]

I play X-Rebirth every day. No less than two hours every day, and never got bored of it!
Well, not the whole game. Just the soundtrack. The game is downgraded to B grade space shooter, but the music, oh! Alexei made it to my no.1 artist, moving Bear McCreary to second place.
So, thats something.

Anyway, when Bernd said that the game is in no way dumbed down, I would have never believed to get a game with exactly two orders I can give to my ships. I would have never thought that I can buy ships but the only thing I can do with them is leave them floating in the space. I can build a station, but only one or two because I simply can't pick a location where to place them, meaning my possibilities are extremely limited. This game is nice for player who like to have one or two stations, a few ships and don't like to fight. For everyone else... well... The soundtrack can't make it all up, can it.

Even after three months I simply can't believe that the same guys who made X3:TC and AP are responsible for Rebirth. It is like the absolute oposite of what X means in the past. And even after three months that makes me sad.

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

How do you mean "dumbed down"?
Except for ability to fly any ship, nothing was removed. Definitely not dumbed down.

[navetta]

How do you mean "dumbed down"?
Except for ability to fly any ship, nothing was removed. Definitely not dumbed down.

Again, do you even read posts or do you just copy/paste your propaganda?

I would have never believed to get a game with exactly two orders I can give to my ships. I would have never thought that I can buy ships but the only thing I can do with them is leave them floating in the space. I can build a station, but only one or two because I simply can't pick a location where to place them, meaning my possibilities are extremely limited.

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

I dont see a problem. Ships now attack automatically, they also automatically follow. Trading is now a little bit different.
There are the very same options, you just can´t see them cause they are automatic.

[ravage_za]

Sorry, no. The game is far, far dumber than X3. Why else the make-work mini-game rubbish? To keep you busy instead of playing. I prefer playing my games instead of being a spectator.

Can't wait for how awesome X:R: Screensaver will be. That's where we're heading if they continue to remove all the complexity.

I WANT a complex space sim, not a dumber more complicated one.

[Mordin Ashe]

Earth Ultimatum, I understand that at the background of X3 was a simulation of real economy where ships were mining, trading and fighting, stations were producing and space was just sitting there looking great. The same is undoubtly true for Rebirth as well, but why should I care about some mythical economy when I can't affect it, and I can't participate?

The difference you probably miss is the level of importance and possibilities. In X3 I have bought a TL, harvested many thousands of various goods only to jump 30 sectors away and sell it all for great profit. In Rebirth all I can do for all eternity is to send my 1-4 freighters (one can hardly manage more himself in any meaningful way) to station A and sell it to station B. The problem is relatively static perception of universe. In X3, what you had could have changed in many ways. Demand was filled, enemy faction wiped the sector, NPCs started building station that made your trade runs pointless - anything. In Rebirth though, you will until the end of time buy products at station A, sell at station B (see, repetitive? All good games have a special way of automatisation of repetitive tasks, except for Rebirth, where this is all you get) and repeat. Perhaps change the stations from time to time, but that's it. You can't change the economy by building many more demanding station complexes, no NPC will build their stations to adapt, no enemy invasion fleet will ruin your day and no matter what you do, you're stuck with the same opportunities you get in the first hour of game for the rest of game. X3 was different in this.

And now I am only talking about trading. Other parts of game are, well, even worse.
Also, you don't have to convince me that something is not as I see it. I don't need apologets, I found value in what I bought (game is worth 5 euros for me, but the soundtrack is worth 45 euros so I roughly got what I paid for) but please, don't pretend there isn't difference between how rich was the space in X3 and how limited it is in Rebirth. Don't look for whats under the hatch, look for what you can actually do in the game.

[dzhedzho]

X2 and 3 at least attempted to change the universe. Maybe not in a meaningful, or the right way, but still.

You spend too much time in SETA in X2 - you got invasion in a certain sector (of course you could exploit that once you know, but).

In X2 and 3, mission difficulty and reward increased with rank.

AP and it's response fleets (nothing ES invented, there was a mod like that for long time)

In X3 stations were added/removed etc.

Yes a lot of things were centered around the player, but for a SP game, I think that's not a bad thing. If I wanted to be a tiny part of the big picture, I'd be playing MMO instead.

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

X2 and 3 at least attempted to change the universe. Maybe not in a meaningful, or the right way, but still.

You spend too much time in SETA in X2 - you got invasion in a certain sector (of course you could exploit that once you know, but).

In X2 and 3, mission difficulty and reward increased with rank.

AP and it's response fleets (nothing ES invented, there was a mod like that for long time)

In X3 stations were added/removed etc.

Yes a lot of things were centered around the player, but for a SP game, I think that's not a bad thing. If I wanted to be a tiny part of the big picture, I'd be playing MMO instead.

Sorry, but this is pure bullcrap.
You cannot even say "in my opinion" as an excuse, because its simply not true.
Universe in previous games was completly static. No economy, everything controlled by GoD. Just spawned via code, not produced. Basically, they were cheated in.
X Rebirth universe is dynamic: stations produce goods and those goods are used to produce something else. Miners mine ores and freighters transport goods. Combat ships are being produced at shipyard from resources, and once they are destroyed, faction has to build a replacement one.
You might not believe me, cause there are many bugs now, but once you download the "IgnoreJumpFuel" mod, 90% of stucked ships will start working (if you downloaded the mod before those ships got stuck) and the economy will start actually producing things and working.
Needs a lot of fixing. Thats the problem.
This is actually the reason why X:R economy is more buggy than economy of previous games - because its an actual ECONOMY, not just spawned items. It was very easy for Egosoft to create a fake, spawn-based economy in previous games.

New stations are built, old stations are being upgraded.
Its a very slow proccess, which you cannot really see.
But its really working. After tens and tens of hours you will notice new stations appearing. Also those upgrades, I recently built a H20 addictives in DeVries. Next to a NPC station that was just under construction.

[Darrosquall]

feel free to tell us what you want to say Op(even with we read your kind of post 1000 times), but one thing: you are saying that forum is almost dead, did you find an explanation?

I have one: there are a lot of people that playing the game, they want to discuss about the game, but simply is almost impossibile, cause there are a lot of people here that deny this opportunity.

I can't understand your point, you and other have no interest anymore in this game(steelgrey75 said, but he's always here, strange!), but still post in X:Rebirth forum. It's your freedom.

[Master-Of-Orion]

It's really sad. But the worst is how they treated their own community: ignorance, lies upon lies and taking everyone for complete idiots. Not only not owning up to their own failure and admitting they made a mistake, but they even tried to play Rebirth off as a "huge success", completely ignoring the tidal wave of rage crashing against them from day one. That's not only sad, it's plain insulting.

So? That's how the World works. You can love it, or hate it... Positioning yourself in the middle ground while voicing a somewhat obvious, yet childish post, won't help your cause, if you really even have one.

Sure, the Rebirth proponents can say, that I'm the vocal minority, a stupid hater, a troll or whatever, but that still won't change anything. I was a devoted fan of the series for many years, and I really hate to see it go down like this. X deserved better. So much better.

X deserved better? Who are YOU to decide if it deserved better or not? You're a mere consumer, with little to no value. Whether it deserves better or not, is Egosoft's decision, not yours. As I mentioned previously, you're not a "fan", you're a mere piece of flesh living in the age of consumption. You either buy a product, or quite frankly, leave it alone.

Ex. When I was a kid, me and a few friends saw a piece of shit on the street. One kid said, "Cool, a piece of shit!". Another kid replied "Yea, the colour is awesome, but I don't like the smell". A third kid, grabbed a stick to start playing with it. As he started poking the shit with the stick, it began to smell worse than before, and the looks of it, were quite disgusting. A few minutes later, they started somesort of pointless heated discussion, related to Mr.Excrement. I thought to myself, "Geez, these guys are friggin idiots. Just leave it alone, or eat it FFS!! No need to say anything, because the dog who took it, isn't even here, and EVEN IF HE WAS, he wouldn't understand a damn thing. So please, let's move on, can we?

[Mordin Ashe]

Who are YOU to decide if it deserved better or not? You're a mere consumer, with little to no value.

An amusing misconception on your part. Customers are the most important part of every business. Right now, customers say that Rebirth is just over 3 on metacritic, and we are right. Nothing else matters but what we think.
If you don't accept this simple truth then you should stay away from commenting any business and products because you simply have no clue.

[caleb]

Sorry, but this is pure bullcrap.
You cannot even say "in my opinion" as an excuse, because its simply not true.
Universe in previous games was completly static. No economy, everything controlled by GoD. Just spawned via code, not produced. Basically, they were cheated in.
X Rebirth universe is dynamic: stations produce goods and those goods are used to produce something else. Miners mine ores and freighters transport goods. Combat ships are being produced at shipyard from resources, and once they are destroyed, faction has to build a replacement one.
You might not believe me, cause there are many bugs now, but once you download the "IgnoreJumpFuel" mod, 90% of stucked ships will start working (if you downloaded the mod before those ships got stuck) and the economy will start actually producing things and working.
Needs a lot of fixing. Thats the problem.
This is actually the reason why X:R economy is more buggy than economy of previous games - because its an actual ECONOMY, not just spawned items. It was very easy for Egosoft to create a fake, spawn-based economy in previous games.

New stations are built, old stations are being upgraded.
Its a very slow proccess, which you cannot really see.
But its really working. After tens and tens of hours you will notice new stations appearing. Also those upgrades, I recently built a H20 addictives in DeVries. Next to a NPC station that was just under construction.

Look, both are illusions. Not one is more "real" than the other. The problem is that the old X games felt more engaging. Whether the underlying economy was "real" or not it does not matter. It was more engaging for a lot of people, and made it more fun.

X:R can have "real" economy, and a lot of other things. But if they are not engaging, accessible, fun, then what's the point?

I've seen your posts, I know you like the game, and I respect that. But there is no need to attack every single opposing opinion out there.

Personally, I also dislike the game because it is not engaging enough. Sure, stations are big, and pretty, but they are a hassle to interact with. Old stations were small and limited, but very easy to interact with, and control. Also the bugs, missing features, but that has been said countless times before.

Bottom line, the OP does have a good point. It's been 3 months, and while the game is a little better in regards of bugs, it's not any more engaging, accessible, or fun than before for me.

[Skism]

Who are YOU to decide if it deserved better or not? You're a mere consumer, with little to no value.

An amusing misconception on your part. Customers are the most important part of every business. Right now, customers say that Rebirth is just over 3 on metacritic, and we are right. Nothing else matters but what we think.
If you don't accept this simple truth then you should stay away from commenting any business and products because you simply have no clue.

Oh the arrogance that defenders of this game sometimes exhibit....

I have even on occasion defended this game from some charges but by saying " You are a mere consumer with little to no value" assuming you are being serious you are exhibiting stupidity of the first rank and order, basically you might as well shoot the game and all of its players with a gun and then wonder why you have an angry reaction, Mordin has it right.

Look I want all of rebirths defenders to listen up, by saying that truth is a lie and that people with objections are and I quote "Bullcrap" you are killing discussion about this game and therefore its userbase,

If you want rebirth to ever thrive quit it.

[Graaf]

you are saying that forum is almost dead, did you find an explanation?

I have one: there are a lot of people that playing the game, they want to discuss about the game, but simply is almost impossibile, cause there are a lot of people here that deny this opportunity.

I see some false claims here.

Nobody is denying you the opportunity to discuss the game. But if you prefer to discuss it with just people that like the game, then I suggest you start a private forum.

[ragod]

I have one: there are a lot of people that playing the game, they want to discuss about the game, but simply is almost impossibile, cause there are a lot of people here that deny this opportunity.

[ external image ]

If that were true more than about 400 would be playing the game at peak times.

How do you mean "dumbed down"?
Except for ability to fly any ship, nothing was removed. Definitely not dumbed down.

Oh Sweet! They let you build your stations anywhere now? Er no? Oh so they added back the dozens of missiles and such that were awe...hm nope... OH! They must have let you buy fighters to scramble from a carrier... Shit not even that?

Yeah this game is severely dumbed down. Dont try to lie just because you happen to enjoy the dumber of the games.