Old(ish) timer just a reminder

[cheggs]

I normally just pop into the forums to see what's new the past few weeks have gotten daft.

Just to point out,

X-Beyond Patch 1.96
X-Tension Patch 2.xx
X2 Patch 2.5
X3 + AP Patch 3.xx

Egosoft can only do so much with their own equipment and need help from as many beta testers as possible. But even with that there is nearly an infinite number combinations of PC's MAC's etc so patching to cover these issues is the only way every company has to do it. Egosoft has one of the best track records for doing this.

Rebirth is not X4 this has been made clear and personally I quite like it and I know the Egoelves are working hard at improving it.
With the Ego track record
Patch 2.0 majority bugs nerfed
Patch 2.5 performance optimisation and additional content
Patch 3.0 Extras and final polish
Rome wasn't built in a day please go easy on these guys they have feelings too and are doing their best.

Sorry about the rant but somethings must be said

[birdtable]

Good Rant ....gets my support.

[Nosscar]

Good post, welcome back. I believe their is a gem underneath somewhere.
I think that because this game was in development for so long their is a lot of impatience about, more so from the ones who believe the game should not have been released as it was, or were ripped off.

But your post is a touch of sanity in the madness.
Sit back, clear head, take 10 breaths, have a coffee. think......

You know what... your spot on.

[danleach]

I agree

[Mopy]

I can't forget the track record Ego has. All that support and extra content in the past has to account for something.

Despite the anger and annoyance at not getting a finished game which is understandable to an extent, everyone messes up sometime right? It's cool, we're all human.

I'm still confident they'll pull this one back. I suppose that's why I'm not particularly angry compared to a lot of posters. In my mind, there's a clear distinction between some mistakes and a company that just doesn't care. I don't feel scammed or ripped off despite my preorder, because I don't think Ego is the latter as horribly fanboyish as that sounds

[Kabacus]

I can see that some people will enjoy Rebirth, and that is fine. I also acknowledge that Egosofts track record regarding patching isn't matched by many companies.

However without the removal of some of the games features, linked with the introduction of a few features considered missing by many, I cannot say that this game will be one for me. After 90+ hours I know that unless there are significant changes I will not play it again.

The only thing that I can take away with me at the moment is I will now wait until a few weeks after launch before buying any game from anybody. This isn’t because I feel angry or ripped off, it is simply that I made incorrect assumptions and didn’t get the game I thought I had bought.

[ravage_za]

Valid only if you honestly believe X:R's launch state was the same as the others. I personally do not. I can only from personal experience, speak to X2 onwards, but none of the previous games were as bad as X:R at launch, or even 3 months later.

While I realize a lot of time has passed between games, I never rage-quit an X game before Rebirth. No matter what weirdness or bugs befell me. I was one of those annoying people who would tell people how awesome X games were. Now I kinda hope they don't remember I recommended them once upon a time.

The company that released previous games, with the great track record, bears little resemblance to the entity that obfuscated the truth regarding this mess. You are entitled not to agree with me, as I'm sure you don't, but the great thing is, I don't have to agree with you either.

[Santi]

Well said Cheggs, Egosoft games are the product of an evolution between the Developers, Modders and the Forum Community. Right now we are back to X-Beyond the Frontier, with a very promising if bare, game build. Game support from Egosoft is superb, none can say otherwise, good things will come to those who wait.

[Egosucks]

I normally just pop into the forums to see what's new the past few weeks have gotten daft.

Just to point out,

X-Beyond Patch 1.96
X-Tension Patch 2.xx
X2 Patch 2.5
X3 + AP Patch 3.xx

Egosoft can only do so much with their own equipment and need help from as many beta testers as possible. But even with that there is nearly an infinite number combinations of PC's MAC's etc so patching to cover these issues is the only way every company has to do it. Egosoft has one of the best track records for doing this.

Rebirth is not X4 this has been made clear and personally I quite like it and I know the Egoelves are working hard at improving it.
With the Ego track record
Patch 2.0 majority bugs nerfed
Patch 2.5 performance optimisation and additional content
Patch 3.0 Extras and final polish
Rome wasn't built in a day please go easy on these guys they have feelings too and are doing their best.

Sorry about the rant but somethings must be said

Hate to challenge you but this is uncharted waters, with other games they had a constant flow of money coming in, not the case this time .
They also had a vastly superior modding community, also no the case this time .
They also had a much better core game, this is also not the case .
Their previous work was not universally slammed .

They also ( a hell of a lot of also's ) had very active player numbers and a healthy and active community, it just not the case AGAIN .

You cannot compare this game to previous games, it is simply not possible . They have never been is such dire straits .

I can pick just one thing in a list of many and pick holes all over it

Controller support ?

It was claimed it would do everything, the very first added features renders using it pointless .

The UI thats designed around the said above controller is horrible and needs fixed, if we cannot use the controller only option, then there is no point keeping the horrid UI .
Say they scrap it, more time that is just one simple example of the mess they are stuck in .

It is going to take forever to do all these wonderful things and the fact the game and forum is barren already proves nobody is willing to wait .

[Graaf]

Results of the past are no guarantee for the future.

[Danya Turrel]

I have to admit, I was disappointed. But not in the 'let's lynch Berndt' way that the mobs seem to be disappointed. I just love the series and was hoping it would launch better to build more of a following.

Having been around for a while, I know Egosoft will eventually turn this into a game I will love for a long time. I still play X3 in its latest iteration, and sometimes I crank up X2. X2 was smoothed out when I discovered it, but the X3 releases were all buggy to say the least.

I think what's contributed to this rowdy mob more than anything was the release on Steam. With a wider audience, X got a lot more exposure and mostly to a bunch of apes with console controllers that are just not accustomed to this type of game. (Really, is there any other of this type of game? A few indies maybe.) Had Egosoft just released this as they had before, the fans would be a little more considerate.

I'm waiting for the community to give this game a 'go' and then I'll dive in again. When I do I will undoubtedly have a new favorite game. And, should Egosoft do it again, I'll buy the next one too.

[MAUCorp]

Well said, Cheggs, Santi. Fewer comparisons with X3 and more with XtF puts things in healthier perspective.

[Egosucks]

I have to admit, I was disappointed. But not in the 'let's lynch Berndt' way that the mobs seem to be disappointed. I just love the series and was hoping it would launch better to build more of a following.

Having been around for a while, I know Egosoft will eventually turn this into a game I will love for a long time. I still play X3 in its latest iteration, and sometimes I crank up X2. X2 was smoothed out when I discovered it, but the X3 releases were all buggy to say the least.

I think what's contributed to this rowdy mob more than anything was the release on Steam. With a wider audience, X got a lot more exposure and mostly to a bunch of apes with console controllers that are just not accustomed to this type of game. (Really, is there any other of this type of game? A few indies maybe.) Had Egosoft just released this as they had before, the fans would be a little more considerate.

I'm waiting for the community to give this game a 'go' and then I'll dive in again. When I do I will undoubtedly have a new favorite game. And, should Egosoft do it again, I'll buy the next one too.

So if Egosoft stuck to hard copies people would be less angered about it all, that is simply not true, how do you explain away the critics ? are they simply " apes " too ?

[Nanook]

..X got a lot more exposure and mostly to a bunch of apes with console controllers that are just not accustomed to this type of game...

Calling people 'apes' because they use a controller is an insult to those who use them. Forum rules specifically forbid insulting other members, a number of whom do use controllers. So unless you want a formal warning, you should cease and desist with such behaviour.

This is your one and only 'unofficial' warning.

[ragamer]

The problem, OP, is that you are comparing only a part of the past...

...The X series was, for most of the past 10 years, swiming alone in the waters of the Spacesim games...

...That's why it accumulated so much support at many different levels, the competence was faaaaar away, both, in quality and depth.

The problem with Rebirth is that, while looking to reboot the series, they also included some highly questioned basic features, features they lost time into, and features that can't compete with the upcoming rivals... All of this in the name of pursuing the "new type of user" quimera.

Sadly, when they ran out of time (and money?) and released early... All those hours spent into features to lure new users to the franchise have eaten the time needed to show a good image on the unique features X:R should have, the details that will help distinguish itself from the upcoming games...

...On the past ES got time to patch their games slowly and surely... Now its not the case, the timer is ticking and the hard decission is been delayed.

IMO, X:R needs to loose deadweight and turn to focus on its primary feature (station building & trading empire)... Otherwise, when the competition finnally arrives it will be a constant stream of "this is much better than X:R on this or that aspect" (It's already happening... Sadly).

[DMcG276]

I must say that I was annoyed at the release, I know not to expect a fully functional game on day 1, but I did not expect it would be quite as bad as it was. (See attached rant)

It is 3 months later now and the bugs are gone, leaving a game that, to put diplomatically, requires vast amounts of patience. Babysitting traders is not quite my idea of enjoyable relaxation time, and the performance drain stops me running the game in the background, like I did with X3 while writing college reports or studying for exams.

However I have come to begin to agree with those claiming that the new engine allows for new developments. I was looking at mods for Skyrim and by chance thought to look at X Rebirth's nexus page and came across this mod.
http://www.nexusmods.com/xrebirth/mods/369/?
If you look at the description it does show some potential in the engine, especially in the temporary zone creation. If egosoft uses this, and considering they wrote the engine, why would they put something in they have no plans for, it could inject some actual life into the game, something that is sorely missing.

Now for the rant, fell free to skip.
I keep reading people saying you shouldn't expect the game to be flawless at launch, and it really annoys me. Yes you should. It is a failing across the entire software sector, not just games. Almost every other product has to be rigorously tested across many circumstances. Who would get on an aeroplane if it might fall out of the sky because the designers didn't know how it will react at a given mixture of temperature, air pressure, wind speed, wind direction etc.... Who would buy a car if it might suddenly accelerate on a particular road surface? People claim that there are so many different combinations of systems out there that it is impossible to test on all of them. True but the same can be said about any other product, that is not a valid argument for widespread problems. If anyone has heard about Aston Martin's recall you'll see that any potential problems have very serious consequences for the company, but software is just not held to the same standard. There are now standards for testing everything, software included, that have brought reliability up to 99.9997% (six sigma) in a number of areas, but still software lags far far behind. Why is it the fault of the consumer to expect the game to work right out of the box?

[Skism]

I normally just pop into the forums to see what's new the past few weeks have gotten daft.

Just to point out,

X-Beyond Patch 1.96
X-Tension Patch 2.xx
X2 Patch 2.5
X3 + AP Patch 3.xx

Egosoft can only do so much with their own equipment and need help from as many beta testers as possible. But even with that there is nearly an infinite number combinations of PC's MAC's etc so patching to cover these issues is the only way every company has to do it. Egosoft has one of the best track records for doing this.

Rebirth is not X4 this has been made clear and personally I quite like it and I know the Egoelves are working hard at improving it.
With the Ego track record
Patch 2.0 majority bugs nerfed
Patch 2.5 performance optimisation and additional content
Patch 3.0 Extras and final polish
Rome wasn't built in a day please go easy on these guys they have feelings too and are doing their best.

Sorry about the rant but somethings must be said

Okay a good and reasonable point - XR may still be salvageable

[Halconnen]

I know all the starts of the previous games were rough as hell. But under the surface it was visible that they had the potential to be massively good games.

And sure enough, after the bugs were fixed, the games held up.

Rebirth, in turn, is a mess. Even if I imagine all the bugs away, it's still a heap of questionable game design and bad UI. Really, really bad UI.

As much as I like the new engine at it's core, it'd take a major rewrite/redesign of most of the UI and several core gameplay features for me to consider it -playable-. It'd take even more of that to make it -excellent-.

I have faith in Egosoft's update-policy, but I'm honestly worried this game will put them into dire straits financially.

[ravage_za]

Unfortunately, saying, "compare X:R to Egosoft's most buggy release to put it in perspective," is disingeneous to say the least.

As a feldgling developer, you expect teething problems. As one who has specialised in space sims for over a decade, you can't spin this.

X:R is the Uwe Boll film of the X franchise.

[Deleted User]

X:R is a result of a complete disconnect between the fans of the X series and Egosoft. You can not compare this game to any of the old X games because it is fundamentally different and sadly flawed in too many aspects.

If you have a prestigious and well known franchise, a niche market cornered with a rocky but successful track record then it is not a good idea to stray too far away from it.

If you have a history of struggling to release bug free and playable games for the PC then it is not a good idea to flirt with the console market where QA is a must have or you don't even get to release your game.

The industry has caught up. 2 really big names have recently entered the stage again and they already show much more ambition and creativity not to mention an almost cult following sending them more than $20 million in funds.

There is no reasonable time-frame in which X:R could be fixed to reach the complexity and immersion that older titles offered. The foundation is rotten and the more they try to build on top of it the heavier it will get and eventually the whole thing will collapse taking Egosoft with it.

I admire your optimism, OP, but i am afraid that this is a lost cause and it will be the end of Egosoft.

Whoever thought putting in these into the game has clearly lost his mind:

http://i.imgur.com/zPnhMNN.png

{Oversize image replaced by link. Please review the forum rules regarding posting images. - Nanook}