[MOD] Conquest and War in Rebirth! Release Version 1.60 10-30-2016

[Saquavin]

No more CM INVASIONS. So you do not have to worry about ships jumping right on top of your head in the most remote of places heh.


Right now, the war between PMC and HOA in far out should be very interesting!

In my game, Far Out is my HQ. I have stations in gemstone manufacture, concealed hideout, stealy mole.

In 0.2 PMC spawn some fleets and attack my stations in those 3 zones, send some fleets to the big empty (I have destroyed their station). I love all this fight even if it's a bit messy.

I will send feedback of the new 0.3 behaviour.



I've noticed a strange fight behaviour.
Capital ships are targeting surface elements (it's awesome) but they don't use all their weapons when they can't aim/find a surface elements.
For me, a ship must shoot on a capital with every weapons in range, and redirect on surface elements the weapons in range.

Moreover, when they are in range of 2 capitals but you order to attack one, they only attack the one you ordered, and the weapons not facing the target are not shooting the other ennemy capital, they stay passive. (maybe related to first point with surface elements, because in my game the ship not beeing shot was heavily destroyed).

[Marvin Martian]

Forget about ships being built and used. If there is a way that it can be tied to the economy in a sort of broad way or practical way then I would love to do it but would need ideas on that one. How would it be implemented?

use directly the sold ship would be not work with a Job, but you can "convert" them into DPS-points

in move.die something like

Code: Select all

        <do_if value="this.ship.isjobship" negate="true">
          <do_if value="[faction.canteran, faction.heartofalbion, faction.argongovernment].indexof.{this.ship.owner}">
			<set_value name="global.$canteran_stregth" exact="this.ship.dps.all" operation="add"/>
          </do_if>
          <do_elseif value="[faction.plutarch, faction.reivers].indexof.{this.ship.owner}">
			<set_value name="global.$plutarch_stregth" exact="this.ship.dps.all" operation="add"/>
          </do_elseif>
        </do_if>

so you only need to define any DPS-cost levels for the Jobs you use on Invasions and substract them

i'm not complete know your code, but i think after an sector takeover not the whole invasion-job-fleet needed to secure, so you change to an patrol job
that could be also "cost" DPS-points per period
in case your faction run out of Points, you need to build new shipyards, enter ships or something else, otherwise any secure jobs will random deactivated

also it might be possible to assign/transfer ships to a "Admiral" NPC ( i think it might not a problem to transfer player owned ships to a faction NPC and give them command move.patrol/wait
and on invasion start give the player fleet back to the player
for stregth of incasion fleet you count the Admiral assigned ships
but so you can use build ships and from player selected ships

[Saquavin]

Save taken in 0.3 near "new" objects like ships or outpost crash the game on loading.
Exit highway near new object make the game instantly crash too.
Maybe not related to this, but everytimes it crashed, it was near new object.

[UniTrader]

in case of crashes it may be useful to post the tail/last dozen lines of your debuglog - it often contains hints what went wrong or is missing

[BlackRain]

No more CM INVASIONS. So you do not have to worry about ships jumping right on top of your head in the most remote of places heh.


Right now, the war between PMC and HOA in far out should be very interesting!

In my game, Far Out is my HQ. I have stations in gemstone manufacture, concealed hideout, stealy mole.

In 0.2 PMC spawn some fleets and attack my stations in those 3 zones, send some fleets to the big empty (I have destroyed their station). I love all this fight even if it's a bit messy.

I will send feedback of the new 0.3 behaviour.



I've noticed a strange fight behaviour.
Capital ships are targeting surface elements (it's awesome) but they don't use all their weapons when they can't aim/find a surface elements.
For me, a ship must shoot on a capital with every weapons in range, and redirect on surface elements the weapons in range.

Moreover, when they are in range of 2 capitals but you order to attack one, they only attack the one you ordered, and the weapons not facing the target are not shooting the other ennemy capital, they stay passive. (maybe related to first point with surface elements, because in my game the ship not beeing shot was heavily destroyed).

Invasions are done by jobs in version 0.3. If your stations are in a place that sees combat (which they are) then you will see enemy fleets coming in. I may activate some of the invasion spawn code (to have occasional fleets which come after the player). I want to balance things first and see how things work out before doing too much, though.

I just realized that Rubini put better turrets code in CM which is included here. I guess that is affecting targeting and such. Will need to wait for Rubini to check into it, or I could just remove it for now.

[BlackRain]

Save taken in 0.3 near "new" objects like ships or outpost crash the game on loading.
Exit highway near new object make the game instantly crash too.
Maybe not related to this, but everytimes it crashed, it was near new object.

My game crashed a couple times too but it was late and I wasn't paying attention. Going to need more info on why that is. It may or may not have something to do with the mod. In my experience, crashes are usually because of a macro issue.

Perhaps the game engine is having a difficult time with stations being destroyed, some being spawned and destroyed, etc.

I slightly remember seeing some debug stuff about looking for platforms or objects or something and not finding them, not sure. Going to play more and look.

[BlackRain]

Forget about ships being built and used. If there is a way that it can be tied to the economy in a sort of broad way or practical way then I would love to do it but would need ideas on that one. How would it be implemented?

use directly the sold ship would be not work with a Job, but you can "convert" them into DPS-points

in move.die something like

Code: Select all

        <do_if value="this.ship.isjobship" negate="true">
          <do_if value="[faction.canteran, faction.heartofalbion, faction.argongovernment].indexof.{this.ship.owner}">
			<set_value name="global.$canteran_stregth" exact="this.ship.dps.all" operation="add"/>
          </do_if>
          <do_elseif value="[faction.plutarch, faction.reivers].indexof.{this.ship.owner}">
			<set_value name="global.$plutarch_stregth" exact="this.ship.dps.all" operation="add"/>
          </do_elseif>
        </do_if>

so you only need to define any DPS-cost levels for the Jobs you use on Invasions and substract them

i'm not complete know your code, but i think after an sector takeover not the whole invasion-job-fleet needed to secure, so you change to an patrol job
that could be also "cost" DPS-points per period
in case your faction run out of Points, you need to build new shipyards, enter ships or something else, otherwise any secure jobs will random deactivated

also it might be possible to assign/transfer ships to a "Admiral" NPC ( i think it might not a problem to transfer player owned ships to a faction NPC and give them command move.patrol/wait
and on invasion start give the player fleet back to the player
for stregth of incasion fleet you count the Admiral assigned ships
but so you can use build ships and from player selected ships

Hmm, I suppose it is possible. If you would like to take a look at the code and help out with coding and such please let me know. I could certainly use help with new ideas like this. Would be able to do much more with more people.



As for invasions, I am thinking of maybe slowing them down a bit? If you can, give me feedback on the new Jobs invasions and let me know if you think they are happening too quickly (The two areas I need to know about are Far Out and Barren Heart/Bleak Pebble)

The PMC are supposed to invade Bleak Pebble but I haven't seen it happen yet so let me know if it is working or not. Might need to tweak it.

[BlackRain]

I just loaded up my game and it loaded with me looking at the door that leads to the skunk cockpit from the back area. I can't open any menus but I can change view to the outside of the skunk and fly but I can't interact with anything.

I don't know if this is because I am using the latest beta or because of something else. This hasn't happened to me in a long time (I remember this happening in much earlier versions of the game). I hope its not because of the mod, probably not.

[BlackRain]

About resources, though. I don't understand why you guys want to use them. I get it, for the realism issue, okay, but as is the game doesn't ever have enough resources. Every time I play, the game completely runs out of scanning array, reinforced metal plating, fusion reactors, podkletnov generators, all the things needed for ships. Shipyards get stuck. Taking more resources would make things worse, wouldn't it?

[w.evans]

About resources, though. I don't understand why you guys want to use them. I get it, for the realism issue, okay, but as is the game doesn't ever have enough resources. Every time I play, the game completely runs out of scanning array, reinforced metal plating, fusion reactors, podkletnov generators, all the things needed for ships. Shipyards get stuck. Taking more resources would make things worse, wouldn't it?

Would make raids against economic targets into enemy territory, and defending against raids into friendly territory, make sense.

[BlackRain]

About resources, though. I don't understand why you guys want to use them. I get it, for the realism issue, okay, but as is the game doesn't ever have enough resources. Every time I play, the game completely runs out of scanning array, reinforced metal plating, fusion reactors, podkletnov generators, all the things needed for ships. Shipyards get stuck. Taking more resources would make things worse, wouldn't it?

Would make raids against economic targets into enemy territory, and defending against raids into friendly territory, make sense.

Right, but at the cost of killing the economy. There is already going to be quite a lot of disruptions with destroyed stations and also if they kill cargo ships with cargo in them. I want to make as realistic of a war as possible but I want the player to still be able to have a functioning economy. Also, in the future, the player wont be tied to any one faction so they could just be an independent business man looking to make money on the war. That can't happen if there is no economy haha. I don't know, maybe it would work out fine but I am not so certain. Like I said, I have yet to see there be enough resources in a game past a couple of days of play in a save (initially there may seem like a lot but after a couple of days of in game play, it becomes extremely difficult to find resources for building stations and ships)

Unless we can find a good way to increase resources. I don't know. Perhaps add more stations into the game? This is a possibility. If a good way to implement it that makes sense comes along, I am all for it. Let us keep the discussion going.

[w.evans]

Could be a role that the TU could fill. Find economic holes and fill them. Would also tie in with them oddly tolerating the Cartel and the UA. If the Cartel and the UA make money by playing mercenary and exploiting weaknesses, the TU could make money by filling the economic vacuums that result while staying, or trying to stay, neutral with everyone. Would also be provocative to the player, they would essentially be in direct economic competition with the player who would lose opportunities with those economic holes being filled.

No idea how this could be done, though, nor if it's at all possible. Hell of a lot of md scripting.

[BlackRain]

Could be a role that the TU could fill. Find economic holes and fill them. Would also tie in with them oddly tolerating the Cartel and the UA. If the Cartel and the UA make money by playing mercenary and exploiting weaknesses, the TU could make money by filling the economic vacuums that result while staying, or trying to stay, neutral with everyone. Would also be provocative to the player, they would essentially be in direct economic competition with the player who would lose opportunities with those economic holes being filled.

No idea how this could be done, though, nor if it's at all possible. Hell of a lot of md scripting.

By the way, I changed the relation with teladi to the Cartels to kill them hah. I got tired of losing ships docking at the teladi station while cartel ships attacked me right beneath their very eyes. I found it unrealistic.

The problem with this is that I would have to go against the lore here I suppose. The teladi do not produce the same goods needed for ships as albion (not all anyway). Like reinforced metal plating I think, right? I could give the Teladi lots of new stations that produce all of the goods needed and give them tons of universe traders to move this stuff around

[Saquavin]

Invasions are done by jobs in version 0.3. If your stations are in a place that sees combat (which they are) then you will see enemy fleets coming in. I may activate some of the invasion spawn code (to have occasional fleets which come after the player). I want to balance things first and see how things work out before doing too much, though.

I just realized that Rubini put better turrets code in CM which is included here. I guess that is affecting targeting and such. Will need to wait for Rubini to check into it, or I could just remove it for now.

For some reason PMC exchange was fully rebuilt + PMC outpost in the big empty, so I've had invasion fleets same as 0.2. I'm working to destroy it again

Better turrets is a nice idea but the ship not shooting at hull is annoying. With surface elements destroyed, ships are usually not a threath anymore, or really low with only few weapons. I think you can wait for Rubini.

My game crashed a couple times too

Could not manage to make the game crashes again, even if I loaded the same save and did exactly the same action. I've activated debuglog.

Every time I play, the game completely runs out of scanning array, reinforced metal plating, fusion reactors, podkletnov generators, all the things needed for ships. Shipyards get stuck. Taking more resources would make things worse, wouldn't it?

Exactly this. Thanks I have stations which produce scanning array, reinforced metal plating, fusion reactors and podkletnov.
Those 4 ressources are sold by nobody in the entire universe (I have trade agents everywhere). Sometimes about 50 RMP sold by PMC, but don't stay more than 2 minutes ! I'm currently building/expending stations, and it takes ages. (tied to my production, which is sold instantly if I don't restrict trade).
The wares causing troubles, not consumed, are the weapons, missiles and force field : nobody buy it, full stock everywhere.

I got tired of losing ships docking at the teladi station while cartel ships attacked me right beneath their very eyes. I found it unrealistic.

I solved the problem with a change in my trade fleet : lyramekron. It eats 2 pheonix in every trips

[BlackRain]

Invasions are done by jobs in version 0.3. If your stations are in a place that sees combat (which they are) then you will see enemy fleets coming in. I may activate some of the invasion spawn code (to have occasional fleets which come after the player). I want to balance things first and see how things work out before doing too much, though.

I just realized that Rubini put better turrets code in CM which is included here. I guess that is affecting targeting and such. Will need to wait for Rubini to check into it, or I could just remove it for now.

For some reason PMC exchange was fully rebuilt + PMC outpost in the big empty, so I've had invasion fleets same as 0.2. I'm working to destroy it again

Better turrets is a nice idea but the ship not shooting at hull is annoying. With surface elements destroyed, ships are usually not a threath anymore, or really low with only few weapons. I think you can wait for Rubini.

My game crashed a couple times too

Could not manage to make the game crashes again, even if I loaded the same save and did exactly the same action. I've activated debuglog.

Every time I play, the game completely runs out of scanning array, reinforced metal plating, fusion reactors, podkletnov generators, all the things needed for ships. Shipyards get stuck. Taking more resources would make things worse, wouldn't it?

Exactly this. Thanks I have stations which produce scanning array, reinforced metal plating, fusion reactors and podkletnov.
Those 4 ressources are sold by nobody in the entire universe (I have trade agents everywhere). Sometimes about 50 RMP sold by PMC, but don't stay more than 2 minutes ! I'm currently building/expending stations, and it takes ages. (tied to my production, which is sold instantly if I don't restrict trade).
The wares causing troubles, not consumed, are the weapons, missiles and force field : nobody buy it, full stock everywhere.

We could add in costs for weapons and such to use them, that could work, definitely. As for better turrets, I am pretty sure it only targets surface elements when it is in defensive mode. If you set it to attack, they will attack hull. I have watched my ships destroy plenty of targets so it is working.

[Saquavin]

As for better turrets, I am pretty sure it only targets surface elements when it is in defensive mode. If you set it to attack, they will attack hull. I have watched my ships destroy plenty of targets so it is working.

All my ships are in aggressive stance (attack ennemies).
I would have uploaded video if only I had a fast internet line... I'll try to make a short video in low definition, not taking too much space.

[BlackRain]

As for better turrets, I am pretty sure it only targets surface elements when it is in defensive mode. If you set it to attack, they will attack hull. I have watched my ships destroy plenty of targets so it is working.

All my ships are in aggressive stance (attack ennemies).
I would have uploaded video if only I had a fast internet line... I'll try to make a short video in low definition, not taking too much space.

Try changing it to defense and back to attack. Also, are you using better turrets and CWIR, or just CWIR?

[w.evans]

Better turrets is a nice idea but the ship not shooting at hull is annoying. With surface elements destroyed, ships are usually not a threath anymore, or really low with only few weapons. I think you can wait for Rubini.

Sorry, forgot to mention: I remember from Better Turrets, that ships don't fire on hulls unless the defence officers are set to "offensive." On defensive, they only target surface elements, and only on active targets, or when attacked.

edit: Oof, just noticed how far behind this reply is. Getting slow in my old age.

[Saquavin]

I'm using only CWIR. (posted my full list mod few pages ago).
I'll try to switch them to defensive then aggressive again as you said, maybe it will reset.

[BlackRain]

I'm using only CWIR. (posted my full list mod few pages ago).
I'll try to switch them to defensive then aggressive again as you said, maybe it will reset.

Let me know how it turns out.