No info?

[Nikola515]

I personally will wait until I see some live gameplay that actually shows how game works and not just pretty lights. People that blindly buy and defend products from company that is known to sell broken/buggy games just encourage their bad practices.... I know that Ego will fix game in a year or two but that is not the point....

[Chris0132]

I personally will wait until I see some live gameplay that actually shows how game works and not just pretty lights. People that blindly buy and defend products from company that is known to sell broken/buggy games just encourage their bad practices.... I know that Ego will fix game in a year or two but that is not the point....

I mean that's not really a problem as long as you know what you're getting. Given that nobody else really makes this kind of game I don't mind paying for it in order to fund later development on it. It's that or... no X-like games basically.

[Nikola515]

As long as they are honest about it I don't have problem with it..... If they thold as about what shape XR was I wouldn't have never criticized them at all. But selling as finished product (not early access) is plain wrong and I can't support companies like that (no matter how much I like their games).

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

It's just that people are more cautious now. We've been burned before. Spacebase DF-9, No Man's Sky at launch, assorted shovelware and "Early Access" titles that have been out for 5 years and still not at version 1.0. Gamers today want to know what we're spending our money on, and rightfully so.

Yes, no one is making us buy the game or preorder it. However, it has still peaked our interest, and we would simply like to know and see more. The livestreams, save for the very first ones, are just the devs talking over pre-recorded, looping gameplay. The launch date announcement trailer that came out recently is the exact same trailer that launched at Gamescom a month or so before that, but it was in German. It still pretty much showed the same stuff we had seen for a year. We want to make sure the product we're being sold on is the same one we will get our hands on.


Egosoft has not had a Q&A session since last year. Many questions were given half or non-answers, and never spoken of again. How about a new round of questions and answers? Leading up to the launch of X Rebirth, Egosoft also released videos giving demonstrations of gameplay mechanics, and even showing some parts of development, such as capital ship pathing. They're being extremely cagey with this one, which is often a red flag for gamers.


I believe they could get a lot more publicity if they released more videos showing some mechanics, and how they may differ from what we're used to. Look at the forum: half of the posts are pure speculation, often going into tangents, and half being people expressing doubts and fears. We should be able to speak with surety about this game. The public wants space games. With Elite: Dangerous slowing down, and Star Citizen still a LONG way away, the market is ripe for a game like X4 to steal the stage, but it can't with looped pre-recorded gameplay and rampant speculation, with little hard facts. I want to be able to recommend this game to friends, and others. I want to point to it as THE space game of 2018 (and possibly even 2019).

If they're going to say they don't want to release gameplay to avoid spoilers: they already spoiled it by saying there will be abandoned stations and the like, ruining the surprise of discovery. I don't want to see story (or any plot-related) gameplay. I want to see mining, dogfights, watching a battle from a capital ship bridge while controlling ships from the map, just simple things that show that I have nothing to fear, that my investment of money and faith was well-placed, that I can continue to hold Egosoft in high regard.

Please don't make this another carrot on the end of an ever-lengthening stick.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

How times change. I remember buying computer games from shops. I would just wander in and have a look at what was on offer. There was just the game in a box with some artwork and blurb on it.
In many cases that's all there was. I found X2 in exactly this way. What a great find.

Now here we are 14 years later, shops are now almost exclusively geared towards consoles. Finding any PC game is hard work. So I use steam. I still occasionally buy games without really knowing anything about them.
Some are good, some mediocre and some downright bad.

I pre-ordered X4 simple as, I want Egosoft to have my money and continue in business.

I don't want to see gameplay videos, I want the game to be mostly a mystery, until I start to play it, then I find out for myself how it all works.

I also don't want the temptation of having videos explaining the game available to me.

You want to see all the details of the game before purchase, fine by me, just wait, grow a little patience. The game is released fairly soon then you'll get the information you want.

[Nikola515]

There is big difference between how the game works and if the game works.... Simple AI behavior or live gameplay for 20min (blowing things up or trading) without game crashing or freezing would be enough.... Everything we have seen so far was prerecorded,edited and scripted. You can say it was same with XR but that is because they were hiding broken game. Anyway people can wait when game is out and than let the free market do the rest

Edit: Not everyone here can throw away money at games as you do. In some countries people need to work whole month for 50$.

[Vandragorax]

There is big difference between how the game works and if the game works.... Simple AI behavior or live gameplay for 20min (blowing things up or trading) without game crashing or freezing would be enough.... Everything we have seen so far was prerecorded,edited and scripted. You can say it was same with XR but that is because they were hiding broken game. Anyway people can wait when game is out and than let the free market do the rest

Edit: Not everyone here can throw away money at games as you do. In some countries people need to work whole month for 50$.

What makes you think they will release a game if it's crashing and freezing regularly?

What makes you think that being shown a "live gameplay" for 20 mins without a crash would mean that the game will NEVER crash once?

As far as I can remember, the main issues with XR at release were performance with some particular zones (with lots of asteroids or dust clouds etc.) and that some parts of the storyline could get stuck and end up not possible to progress/complete. None of those issues would be highlighted with even a 2 hour live gameplay video using a beefy dev box to run it.

But I will say that Egosoft have obviously learned from these part experiences.

• They have removed the storyline (which seemed to be more prone to game breaking bugs) so it's entirely sandbox again now, but with a main HQ 'plot' to follow if desired.
• They have also switched to Vulcan, in part to address performance issues and hopefully allow for a better performing game across all platforms. It also inadvertently excludes a lot of old systems from even starting the game, so there's less worry that "potato PC" gamers will complain their 10 year old rig can't run the game properly despite being nowhere near the min requirements
• And don't forget they haven't been pressured by a publisher to release when they weren't ready this time around, they held off giving us a release date until only a month ago when they were pretty damn sure it would be fine. They are self-publishing this time.

So I am not concerned at all. I am pretty sure on release weekend I am going to be glued to this game and won't be able to turn it off

[Alci]

• And don't forget they haven't been pressured by a publisher to release when they weren't ready this time around, they held off giving us a release date until only a month ago when they were pretty damn sure it would be fine. They are self-publishing this time.

actually.. they seem to be focusing on wrong things in regards of "people". Their way of not telling anything because they fear they will be hold 100% to it.. even when the reality proves otherwise...

And the result is they've "promised" the target window to 2018 last year. Also as it seems "before Christmas" is an important window (as they probably won't work "that much" during second half of December).

And between these restrains I have only small doubts they act as they have no choice. Prolonging it as long as they could. But they "have to" release it now whatever rough edges it may have. Same as if publisher ordered it.

The only alternative would be postpone it to next year which could be considered as a failure (due to how little public info there is the more important everything becomes effect). But so is releasing rough game (again). And the lack of happy talks (or those "will be revealed closer to release date") could be interpreted as they are not relaxed and that many questions what will make it into release and what's not were not even decided yet, even now.

That's the cold analysis based on observed behavior without any "hopes" and "concerns" (better not face naivety from any side).

[Nikola515]

What makes you think that they wont or wouldn't release game that crashes or freezes ? It is not like they haven't done it before (X3R,TC,AP,XR) Forgive me for being little bit suspicious....


It looks like two of us have pretty different memory when it comes to XR or perhaps you didn't get it at release ? Does ships flying trough stations rings a bell ? Or perhaps where whole economy was broken and none of trading ships didn't move ? Stations managers didn't buy wares needed to run stations? Player capital ships wouldn't fire back at enemy or move/follow orders? I was one of people that stayed and helped beta test and fix the game until the end and I have over 1800h on it And for the record I didn't have that many problems with crashes,FPS drops and memory leeks like other did(I had crush every 2h).


I welcome all those new changes and upgrades but this don't answer or reassure that this will be solid working game.

But lets put aside all this and use logic...
We all know Ego have bad rep with public do to XR (what we think is irrelevant only public rating matter).
We have little over 4 weeks and game is not ready to be shown ?
Do you honestly think major changes and polishing can be done in this short of time ?
This month have some major titles coming out so how it will benefit ego not to give any information to promote their game ? Potential consumers that don't know about X games wont even notice X4 do to heavy marketing for games like fallout or battlefield... People like us might buy the game because we know about it but it will have problem attracting new potential consumers.


As i said before i dont care what they do because free market will decide. They can run their business any way they want... They are in charge after all and not me

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

How times change. I remember buying computer games from shops. I would just wander in and have a look at what was on offer. There was just the game in a box with some artwork and blurb on it.
In many cases that's all there was. I found X2 in exactly this way. What a great find.

Now here we are 14 years later, shops are now almost exclusively geared towards consoles. Finding any PC game is hard work. So I use steam. I still occasionally buy games without really knowing anything about them.
Some are good, some mediocre and some downright bad.

I pre-ordered X4 simple as, I want Egosoft to have my money and continue in business.

I don't want to see gameplay videos, I want the game to be mostly a mystery, until I start to play it, then I find out for myself how it all works.

I also don't want the temptation of having videos explaining the game available to me.

You want to see all the details of the game before purchase, fine by me, just wait, grow a little patience. The game is released fairly soon then you'll get the information you want.

I don't want to see all the details of a game before launch, I want to see how they have changed/improved some mechanics, I want to see that this game is shaping up to be what's promised. I backed it too, I preordered the Collector's Edition, because I want this game to succeed. I have never, ever ordered a CE of a game in all my years of gaming. If I preordered, it was always the base edition.
If you've seen any of the livestreams, you've been spoiled. If you've read any posts on here talking about gameplay features, you've been spoiled. If you looked at the Screenshot of the Day, you've been spoiled. Just because they show off how something is new or different than what we've seen before, doesn't make it a spoiler. If you don't want to have the mechanics explained to you, don't watch. It's like Just Cause 4, another game I'm excited about. I know that it's going to be mostly the same as the last ones, but with greatly improved mechanics. Watching the gameplay videos only serves to get me more excited for its release, rather than making me feel spoiled. I can see that it's shaping up to be an awesome game. I can point to it and show my friends and post videos, and they get excited for it as well. But X4? What is there to see? What can I provide as proof that this will be the game we're expecting?

And yes, I remember those days too. However, that was before the age of the microtransation, Early Access, and generic vaporware/shovelware. A devloper's name often carried considerable weight in your purchasing decisions. You know Rockstar always made great single-player open world games. Bioware and Bethesda made solid RPGs.

The developers of Conan Exiles would have weekly/monthly livestreams to show their game as they developed it, and the community gave feedback there on the stream. There were bugs, glitches, technical issues, you name it. But I still bought it at launch. Not just because I liked how it looked and played, but because the devs were so willing to show their product as it evolved, selling potential in addition to a game. It gave me confidence. I don't expect a perfect game at launch. In fact, I would be worried if there WEREN'T any bugs. I fully expect things to break. However, I don't want them to hide it like before. I want to feel involved, not like I'm throwing my money at a hope.

And who cares about the platform? It bugs me that PC gamers always try to make a jab at consoles whenever possible. I grew up on consoles. It took a drunk driver crashing into and destroying my home for me to finally get enough money to afford a gaming PC.

[Tomonor]

A little suspicious, yeah, but I personally do believe in miracles.

And if not for miracles, I do believe in Egosoft's will to repair the game while they also enhance it meanwhile.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Funny I don't recall knocking consoles, I just stated a "fact" that most game shops are geared towards consoles.

Patience, patience, patience... not long now, there will be a whole load of information about the game very soon.

[edit]
As for ships passing through stations, I have played enough games to have seen thousands of NPC characters and vehicles pass through "solid" objects. Even got stuck in various walls, doors... you name it, if it can go wrong it will. Has this stopped me from enjoying those games, "nah." I still play a "leading" developers RPG, sometimes it seems like a bug fest, but one carries on. It is almost part of its charm.

Expecting perfection from software is to my mind a delusion.

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

Funny I don't recall knocking consoles, I just stated a "fact" that most game shops are geared towards consoles.

Patience, patience, patience... not long now, there will be a whole load of information about the game very soon.

It just seems like any time PC players mention consoles, it's with an air of disdain, like consoles ruin everything for them.

And I literally cannot hasten the release, I'm waiting just like everyone else. I just want to see my hope is correctly placed. I don't want another No Man's Sky at launch.

[Nikola515]

[edit]
As for ships passing through stations, I have played enough games to have seen thousands of NPC characters and vehicles pass through "solid" objects. Even got stuck in various walls, doors... you name it, if it can go wrong it will. Has this stopped me from enjoying those games, "nah." I still play a "leading" developers RPG, sometimes it seems like a bug fest, but one carries on. It is almost part of its charm.

Expecting perfection from software is to my mind a delusion.

It was only cosmetic but there is more meaning to it than just what it seems (shadows on a wall). Path finding AI was so horrible and broken that they just turned of collision and had ships fly trough station geometry

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

[edit]
As for ships passing through stations, I have played enough games to have seen thousands of NPC characters and vehicles pass through "solid" objects. Even got stuck in various walls, doors... you name it, if it can go wrong it will. Has this stopped me from enjoying those games, "nah." I still play a "leading" developers RPG, sometimes it seems like a bug fest, but one carries on. It is almost part of its charm.

Expecting perfection from software is to my mind a delusion.

It was only cosmetic but there is more meaning to it than just what it seems (shadows on a wall). Path finding AI was so horrible and broken that they just turned of collision and had ships fly trough station geometry

I remember watching a pre-release video showing how they programmed capital ship pathing. However, it makes sense to allow them to clip, even if it breaks immersion. I would rather my multimillion credit cap-ship phase through stations for a few seconds, rather than have it be like X3 where the slightest tap meant explosion.

[Nikola515]

[edit]
As for ships passing through stations, I have played enough games to have seen thousands of NPC characters and vehicles pass through "solid" objects. Even got stuck in various walls, doors... you name it, if it can go wrong it will. Has this stopped me from enjoying those games, "nah." I still play a "leading" developers RPG, sometimes it seems like a bug fest, but one carries on. It is almost part of its charm.

Expecting perfection from software is to my mind a delusion.

It was only cosmetic but there is more meaning to it than just what it seems (shadows on a wall). Path finding AI was so horrible and broken that they just turned of collision and had ships fly trough station geometry

I remember watching a pre-release video showing how they programmed capital ship pathing. However, it makes sense to allow them to clip, even if it breaks immersion. I would rather my multimillion credit cap-ship phase through stations for a few seconds, rather than have it be like X3 where the slightest tap meant explosion.

I think you are missing whole point here..... XR was sold as finished product and clearly it was something between pre alpha and alpha (just my opinion). This should have never happened on a first place especially when you charge game AAA price.
Your point would make perfect sense if game was pre alpha and game was being tested. But when it comes to finished product (finished game ) this shouldn't happen.... Finished game is or should be playable, polished, tested and all features working and as least buggy as possible.

[spankahontis]

There are several Features that Egosoft haven't shown us in those videos.

Diplomacy, how does this work?
- Is it like CWIR Mod where you speak to a special Diplomat NPC and you're given options like tribute and increasing standing with Faction?
- Is it a UI based thing where you can contact a diplomat from each Faction by the ways of a drop down menu on your UI?
- Is it through Missions?

Player HQ
- What can you do on it? Is it like X3's with some added features to it? Or just the same as X3's PHQ?

How does a Faction Declare War with another?
Can you Declare War with a Faction? Or do you do that simply lowering your rep with them?

[The Q]

Where and when was it mentioned that there is diplomatic gameplay at all?

[ZombiePotatoSalad]

It was only cosmetic but there is more meaning to it than just what it seems (shadows on a wall). Path finding AI was so horrible and broken that they just turned of collision and had ships fly trough station geometry

I remember watching a pre-release video showing how they programmed capital ship pathing. However, it makes sense to allow them to clip, even if it breaks immersion. I would rather my multimillion credit cap-ship phase through stations for a few seconds, rather than have it be like X3 where the slightest tap meant explosion.

I think you are missing whole point here..... XR was sold as finished product and clearly it was something between pre alpha and alpha (just my opinion). This should have never happened on a first place especially when you charge game AAA price.
Your point would make perfect sense if game was pre alpha and game was being tested. But when it comes to finished product (finished game ) this shouldn't happen.... Finished game is or should be playable, polished, tested and all features working and as least buggy as possible.

I know what you meant. I guess I'm just not as demanding. I'm willing to overlook some things if they are practical, or until they get fixed. Thus, the old gamer's adage, "is it a bug or feature?"
They may even be made into mods.

On the other hand, these issues should not exist, as you stated, especially if they're selling it for full price. Especially since they even showed a video of them developing capital ship pathing.

[Tomonor]

Where and when was it mentioned that there is diplomatic gameplay at all?

Nope. But there is that diplomacy thread and that might have misled people, believing that there's actually going to be something of that sort.

What is confirmed is that there are 2 Paranid factions, who don't like each other anymore. There might be scripted battles, there might be dynamic full-scale wars. Who knows.

But I doubt that there's going to be complex diplomacy. That never was a part of the X games. Only the reputation system and the friend/foe settings indicated if one race is an enemy or not.