Definition of END GAME in for example X4 Foundations

[birdtable]

There is a discussion in the forum about long term gameplay and End Game scenarios, but what exactly is an End Game ... while it is easy to talk about it is not so easy to define or develop ... How would you define an End Game and incorporate it into a satisfying finale.
Maybe there should be a button to press when you are almost at the point of burn out that starts an in game catastrophe that wipes out humanity with you the only survivor to start again when totally refreshed.

[csaba]

Usually X game's end game means large incomes from a dozen stations and a large capital ship fleet.

My only issue with this that the basic AI is usually quite weak and dumb so at that point you just roll over them.

So my usual "endgames" need to include mods like CWIR for XR so AI factions actually put up a fight.



Sometimes when I have less time on my hands building a few stations is endgame in itself for me and once I have plenty of time for a full campaign I like to start over instead of having already a previous save with a bunch of stations already in working order.

In XR the first time I did the whole plot that was it for me and I started a new "free play" not shackled by the story decisions. You can view the final mission as the end game at that point. Since X4 seems to not have a "Free Play" option this time this will not be a point here.

[Vandragorax]

Since X4 seems to not have a "Free Play" option this time this will not be a point here.

I'm pretty sure that all of the different game starts will effectively be "free play". You will be placed in the universe with a specific character and background, then left to your own devices... aka free play

As for "what is the end game?" I actually don't think there is an end game in the X series, hence why people call it a sandbox. There is always something else to do, it's more like "at what point does the player feel they've done everything there is to do and got bored?". For X4 I guess once the player runs out of desire for new goals and objectives to put on themselves (i.e. they are happy with the size of their fleet, station empire, money making etc. Once they have flown every ship they are interested in and once they are happy they have explored as much of space as they can.)

Although once that happens, it's quite possible that the game would feel turned on its head, or a different type of challenge by taking one of the different game starts. Perhaps the first playthrough would be as Argon in a safe-ish territory start with few enemies. It's an 'easy' game where the player learns the game universe and the intricate nuances. Then after they feel accomplished with that, they might decide to start as a pirate, or a Paranid at war with other Paranid factions. It would feel significantly different and more of a challenge.

[Alci]

How would you define an End Game and incorporate it into a satisfying finale.

In chess and war it's the point where "major forces are taken out and only few pieces are left".

For me in every progress-based game it's the point where "I've seen it all/done it all" and progressed to the point I can do everything. Story games after playing the story, sandboxes when I've done every task (coherent with a style) to the point I don't "need" to do it anymore, so "the game" "ended". Endgame is what you do with everything you've got.

In X Games my main mid-game goal is money. So the endgame in X2/X3 starts when I get more money from my Empire then I spend building a new station generating even more money.

The question is: what to do with all that money That's the endgame.

X2/X3 had very little of it for me. I couldn't take over sectors/map for me. I couldn't destroy competition. I didn't see the reason for destroying Xenon as everything spawned back. So I called it a game and shelved it until I'm in the mood of building Empire from scratch again (usually it overlaps with the next game iteration )

[AleksMain]

Since X4 like any other X-series game is "a sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer", then definition of the End Game is dependent on the gamer himself.

For example, I tested X Rebirth one time only. I had not completed plot, but completed dozens missions, boarded capital ship and found, that those game is not for me, I don't like it, while I played X3 series games many times. I applied Trade, Fight and Build features of the games, used different strategies to achieve my aim of the chosen game scenarios.

Edit:
Vandragorax in the post above said same already about "sandbox".
If I could delete my post, then I would do it.

[csaba]

Since X4 seems to not have a "Free Play" option this time this will not be a point here.

I'm pretty sure that all of the different game starts will effectively be "free play". You will be placed in the universe with a specific character and background, then left to your own devices... aka free play

I meant it in the way that this time you don't have to start a different game so you are not affected by a strict story. Like in XR it's better to choose free play if you want to be on the PMCs side since the story mode invests a lot of your resources into DeVries which are pretty much lost if you go against them.

Some differences could happen with the gamestarts here as well but they will likely not invest a bunch of your time into 1 faction or you can just switch sides since I think there are more than 1 PHQ locations available. Although I'm not sure you can change your PHQ once you chosen one. It will be likely closer to the X3AP Hub/faction missions where you can decide which one to do and which one not.

[Kittens David]

End game will be reached to me when I will have conquered all the space sectors and built my galactic Empire wiping all the others

[ballti]

Cmon, original post was destroyed by another login procedure, short verzion:

1st run: end game for me means all is explored and tested, all plots are finished, master plan for next run done
2nd run: end game means capable to do all personal goals (big scale), if not 3th run..

End game is conected whith late game and game ower.

[fcth]

I'd imagine there's no real end game.

I've always stopped playing because my empire got too large to manage effectively (managing fleets was the big problem there, replacing/repairing destroyed/damaged ships was pretty tedious, especially since even the L variants weren't fully equipped and battle-ready).

[CBJ]

Surely the "end-game" in a sandbox game is whatever you want it to be. You stop playing when you've accomplished everything you want to accomplish, and you can dip back into it at some point later if you suddenly think of some additional thing you want to do or try. A sandbox game shouldn't normally impose an ending on you.

[spankahontis]

There is a discussion in the forum about long term gameplay and End Game scenarios, but what exactly is an End Game ... while it is easy to talk about it is not so easy to define or develop ... How would you define an End Game and incorporate it into a satisfying finale.
Maybe there should be a button to press when you are almost at the point of burn out that starts an in game catastrophe that wipes out humanity with you the only survivor to start again when totally refreshed.

You mean like Stellaris End Game? Where you get a Big Event? Like the Contingency invading all Galaxy Factions after 200-400 years into your campaign time? Where they spawn massive fleets to try and overwhelm all the Factions and they all stop fighting each other and concentrate on the Contingency.?

Surely the "end-game" in a sandbox game is whatever you want it to be. You stop playing when you've accomplished everything you want to accomplish, and you can dip back into it at some point later if you suddenly think of some additional thing you want to do or try. A sandbox game shouldn't normally impose an ending on you.

He might be talking about something like Stellaris where the End Game isn't exactly Ending the Game.. In Stellaris, once you destroy all 5 of the Contingency's Core Worlds they are destroyed, but the game doesn't end, you can continue playing, you just wont get any unique plots like that in future.

[mr.WHO]

IMO the perfect Endgame for me would be some kind of scripted even of huge "Xenon invasion", where large amount of Xenon ships are (one time) spawned in the universe and you need to repel them.
In addition there would be super powerful Xenono mothership (kinda like in X-BTF) that you have to defeat.


In XR the Engame for me was a mission in Torride where you had to defeat Xenon I with some Xenon K and fighters - it would be nice mission if not the terrible pathfinding in TOrride which made half of my fleet not actually make into the battle location and other half become clusterfu** mess.

After that there was no challenge for me in XR and I lost interest.

[CBJ]

IMO the perfect Endgame for me would be some kind of scripted even of huge "Xenon invasion", where large amount of Xenon ships are (one time) spawned in the universe and you need to repel them.
In addition there would be super powerful Xenono mothership (kinda like in X-BTF) that you have to defeat.

That might be nice for you, but what about all the players who like playing as traders and have no interest in building up a massive fleet for such a scenario? Any kind of "end-game" of this sort would have to be completely optional, triggered by something you do explicitly (like ending the war in X3AP).

[spankahontis]

IMO the perfect Endgame for me would be some kind of scripted even of huge "Xenon invasion", where large amount of Xenon ships are (one time) spawned in the universe and you need to repel them.
In addition there would be super powerful Xenono mothership (kinda like in X-BTF) that you have to defeat.


In XR the Engame for me was a mission in Torride where you had to defeat Xenon I with some Xenon K and fighters - it would be nice mission if not the terrible pathfinding in TOrride which made half of my fleet not actually make into the battle location and other half become clusterfu** mess.

After that there was no challenge for me in XR and I lost interest.

Like the Xenon Super weapon they had, X2 wasn't it?
The Xenon had a huge Cannon capable of destroying Worlds, be awesome to see that they have painstakingly built a new one even bigger and more advanced than the previous.
It could be used to destroy Stations instantly, it flys up the station charges it's weapon and lets loose on the entire station destroying multiple modules at once.
Protected by a Massive Fleet of Xenon I's, J's and P's.

[csaba]

All these late game events are fine just make it VERY obvious it's going to happen. Last thing I need is a haphazardly triggered event where I don't know what did I go wrong and I'm sitting on 50k credits in a dinky Discoverer.

Like YOU ARE GOING TO DIE IF YOU DO THIS obvious.

Still flying to the last mission of X2 in a Nova. Wasn't fun.

[mr.WHO]

IMO the perfect Endgame for me would be some kind of scripted even of huge "Xenon invasion", where large amount of Xenon ships are (one time) spawned in the universe and you need to repel them.
In addition there would be super powerful Xenono mothership (kinda like in X-BTF) that you have to defeat.

That might be nice for you, but what about all the players who like playing as traders and have no interest in building up a massive fleet for such a scenario? Any kind of "end-game" of this sort would have to be completely optional, triggered by something you do explicitly (like ending the war in X3AP).

Well, this is kinda obvious - all previous games had player triggered event, so I can't see why we couldn't have this in X4.
Depending on the playstyle there are hugely different things that classify as "endgame" for players.

[CBJ]

...all previous games had player triggered event, so I can't see why we couldn't have this in X4.

No, they didn't. Only X3AP had this kind of event, and even then it was only introduced in a patch.

[StormMagi]

In games like the X series, I have always considered endgame to be whatever you decide. Do you want to max out reputation for all factions? Do you want to have a fleet that outmatches anything the empires have? Do you want to own the universes economy? The story missions add more flavor to the universe but that is all. Do you even want an endgame? Could you be happy just floating around with a few ships and just take your time with the sights and missions with no real goal in mind to relax from everything? For some, endgame might include modding various features in or tweaking the balance of things. Is it any of these things, Is it playing through with a certain set of restrictions? For example, I did a game of X3:TC (and my overall most fun playing) where the largest ship I could buy was an M6 and I could only buy one, I had to capture anything else I wanted. Before I ended, I had over a dozen M1 and M2 (pirate/Yaki with a Phoenix as a flagship), 2 M7'Ms, several M7s and several self sustained complexes for missles, booze and spaceweed. Is it just one or none of these? Endgame is what you make it.

[mr.WHO]

...all previous games had player triggered event, so I can't see why we couldn't have this in X4.

No, they didn't. Only X3AP had this kind of event, and even then it was only introduced in a patch.

Yes we did:

X3:TC - Khaak significantly reduced after you finish Final Fury mission.
X2 - destruction of President End's.

[The Q]

Those two events had nothing to do with the End game though.