Randomly generated jump gate connections idea

[Falcrack]

I think it would be fun to have the option to start a game where the layout of the sectors and jump gates was randomized. Maybe a game start with the campaigns turned off, so pure sandbox. You could still use the same sector backgrounds and even sector names, but they would not be in places where they are expected. I know, someone will say play a mod, but I think it would be a cool idea to add something like this as a game start option in unmodded X4.

[BigBANGtheory]

It could work I guess along the lines of 7Days to Die however you would I think have the challenge of intentionally building area's of conflict and production weakness which I assume is hand crafted by Egosoft atm and then of course down to how the game plays out with faction aims and player intervention.

So yes I could see that it would be fun but more to it than randomising the plumbing

[Alan Phipps]

I cannot see how how randomised map connections as suggested could allow for any intended balance between factions nor allow for a stable dynamic game economy. I can see some factions having no access to natural resources and/or losing all their ships while trying to trade amongst their own stations and those of allies (or when seeking resources) when having to go via hostile sectors. I'm not sure the current and spoken sector naming would make much sense then either.

Here's a development-free suggestion though for a bit of added RNG flavour - play a roleplay/imposed rules game in which the only permitted way for designated key ships to leave a sector that has a known anomaly is when player-flown and via that anomaly.

[Grouch Potato]

It would be good if we could choose what sectors factions start in, and also the factions relations to each other. It would also be good if we could change factions relations in normal gameplay.

If we could choose a factions starting sectors, then it doesn't need to be randomly generated.

The point of these things is that they dont have to be balanced, same as with adding options to increase Xenon difficulty. We ask for these things for challenge, not for balance, just give warnings that things may not be balanced. The balance only needs to be for the normal game.

[Falcrack]

I cannot see how how randomised map connections as suggested could allow for any intended balance between factions nor allow for a stable dynamic game economy. I can see some factions having no access to natural resources and/or losing all their ships while trying to trade amongst their own stations and those of allies (or when seeking resources) when having to go via hostile sectors. I'm not sure the current and spoken sector naming would make much sense then either.

You could set parameters for randomization, such as ensuring faction sectors are contiguous, and ensuring that each faction has good access to all necessary resources The sector names would be the same set of names currently used by the factions. Argon Prime would still be Argon, Eighteen Billion would still be Teladi, etc. Even though the look and layout of these sectors may be radically different.

Dynamic faction relations and diplomacy could be introduced without the worry of breaking the plot lines, since there would be no plot to speak of. You could set up AI rules that would prevent runaway factions taking everything over, for example if a faction grows too powerful, multiple other factions would join forces to try to stop their expansion. Weaker factions would not be targeted by other AI factions to the same extent.

I'm not saying this would be without development effort, but it would spice up the game for those that have played the plots and want a more 4X like experience.

[Nanook]

For lore purposes, it could be that the ancients decided to realign the gates again. So it would only be gate connections that would change, not accelerators or superhighways. Those would stay the same, keeping systems intact, so that Silent Witness, or Grand Exchange, for example, wouldn't be broken up. After all, the ancients can't control accelerators and superhighways.

[Falcrack]

For lore purposes, it could be that the ancients decided to realign the gates again. So it would only be gate connections that would change, not accelerators or superhighways. Those would stay the same, keeping systems intact, so that Silent Witness, or Grand Exchange, for example, wouldn't be broken up. After all, the ancients can't control accelerators and superhighways.

To be honest, for all I've played of X3 and X4, I never really cared for the lore, a mode without a campaign where lore is basically thrown out the window would be fine by me.

[Scoob]

I think a true randomly-generated map would be dead cool. I.e. player chooses how large they want the universe (X by Y sectors), how dense it is (% of the map actually with sectors), sector ownership balance between factions, whether a Faction's sectors are all grouped together or more fragmented into clusters, neutral spaces etc. etc. Having the familiar X game, but with a huge, seemingly random map would be dead cool. I think there was an X3 mod that did this years ago.

We know fully custom maps can be created - the Star Wars Interworlds mod is the perfect example - so, if it were possible to proceduralise "random" map generation, based on player-provided parameters, that'd be dead cool.

Same sector layout, but different connections would likely just be confusing for my little brain lol.

[alt3rn1ty]

In a fully explored game with all DLCs there are a lot of in-active gates, I think there are around 7 of them.

Maybe if these were to become glitchy, active but with a random destination to one of the other previously in-active gates so going through them you never know which newly active gate you emerge from?.

I have a feeling though that these are maybe going to be tied into v7 and the existential crysis mode.

[BigBANGtheory]

For lore purposes, it could be that the ancients decided to realign the gates again. So it would only be gate connections that would change, not accelerators or superhighways. Those would stay the same, keeping systems intact, so that Silent Witness, or Grand Exchange, for example, wouldn't be broken up. After all, the ancients can't control accelerators and superhighways.

or the co-ordinates are attacked/scrambled by the Xenon, the Kingdom End missions went into more detail about how gates work and it being possible to program them

[TheDeliveryMan]

I think a true randomly-generated map would be dead cool. I.e. player chooses how large they want the universe (X by Y sectors), how dense it is (% of the map actually with sectors), sector ownership balance between factions, whether a Faction's sectors are all grouped together or more fragmented into clusters, neutral spaces etc. etc. Having the familiar X game, but with a huge, seemingly random map would be dead cool. I think there was an X3 mod that did this years ago.

We know fully custom maps can be created - the Star Wars Interworlds mod is the perfect example - so, if it were possible to proceduralise "random" map generation, based on player-provided parameters, that'd be dead cool.

Pretty much sounds like this map generator. Unfortunately it's currently broken.

[dtpsprt]

OK... to begin with, there4 can be no random generated jump gate connections and this for one main reason:

What would happen if randomly Silent Witness I was connected to Great Exchange III? Where would that leave the ring highway? Broken most likely...

Setting this major obstacle aside there can be no Ventures, as the different player's Universes do not match and/or the difficulty of each differs a lot from the other. They would not be fair.

This leads to a *modified* game and the44re is already a mod that does just that...

[dtpsprt]

For lore purposes, it could be that the ancients decided to realign the gates again. So it would only be gate connections that would change, not accelerators or superhighways. Those would stay the same, keeping systems intact, so that Silent Witness, or Grand Exchange, for example, wouldn't be broken up. After all, the ancients can't control accelerators and superhighways.

or the co-ordinates are attacked/scrambled by the Xenon, the Kingdom End missions went into more detail about how gates work and it being possible to program them

The lore states that the Xenon (Terraformers) had no ability to alter the gate destination. They followed the gate "path" Terraforming worlds for colonisation by Humanity, until they went too far to be able to synchronise their cores which resulted in them acquiring sentience and from these sentient Terraformers the Xenon were "born". Even in X3/TC/AP they do not arrive into sectors from nowhere, they follow the gates...

Do not let the used term "Xenon Hub" fool you. It was never used by the Xenon who totally ignored it even though it was in the middle of their "territory"...

[Falcrack]

OK... to begin with, there4 can be no random generated jump gate connections and this for one main reason:

What would happen if randomly Silent Witness I was connected to Great Exchange III? Where would that leave the ring highway? Broken most likely...

Setting this major obstacle aside there can be no Ventures, as the different player's Universes do not match and/or the difficulty of each differs a lot from the other. They would not be fair.

This leads to a *modified* game and the44re is already a mod that does just that...

I'm talking about a game start where sector positions on the map and jump gate connections are semi-randomized. No highway ring would exist. I guess I should have clarified that I was not talking just about jump gate connections, the map would look substantially different each time you started a new game, so exploring the new gate network would be more interesting.

And as to Ventures, I tried it a bit at the beginning of the Ventures beta, but I found it to be very much not personally enjoyable, so it would be no big loss to me if a randomized sector game start was marked as modified and was not available for Ventures.

[TheDeliveryMan]

And as to Ventures, I tried it a bit at the beginning of the Ventures beta, but I found it to be very much not personally enjoyable, so it would be no big loss to me if a randomized sector game start was marked as modified and was not available for Ventures.

Then you might as well use a mod.

[Falcrack]

And as to Ventures, I tried it a bit at the beginning of the Ventures beta, but I found it to be very much not personally enjoyable, so it would be no big loss to me if a randomized sector game start was marked as modified and was not available for Ventures.

Then you might as well use a mod.

Mods can be quite variable in quality, annd sometimes break with game updates, so a more official option would be nice. But if there is a good mod currently available which would do exactly what I am suggesting, and do it in a good way without being full of bugs, I wouldn't be opposed to using it.

[dtpsprt]

And as to Ventures, I tried it a bit at the beginning of the Ventures beta, but I found it to be very much not personally enjoyable, so it would be no big loss to me if a randomized sector game start was marked as modified and was not available for Ventures.

Then you might as well use a mod.

Mods can be quite variable in quality, annd sometimes break with game updates, so a more official option would be nice. But if there is a good mod currently available which would do exactly what I am suggesting, and do it in a good way without being full of bugs, I wouldn't be opposed to using it.

I actually started a game without highways and there was already a problem with the sector the Boron are building one to connect their two segments. Most obviously Egosoft is committed in the blasted highways that do wreck havoc to autopilot anyway... Not sure what this mod will do about the Boron, as from what I remember it was restructuring the Universe adding the missing sectors from X3...

[BigBANGtheory]

For lore purposes, it could be that the ancients decided to realign the gates again. So it would only be gate connections that would change, not accelerators or superhighways. Those would stay the same, keeping systems intact, so that Silent Witness, or Grand Exchange, for example, wouldn't be broken up. After all, the ancients can't control accelerators and superhighways.

or the co-ordinates are attacked/scrambled by the Xenon, the Kingdom End missions went into more detail about how gates work and it being possible to program them

The lore states that the Xenon (Terraformers) had no ability to alter the gate destination. They followed the gate "path" Terraforming worlds for colonisation by Humanity, until they went too far to be able to synchronise their cores which resulted in them acquiring sentience and from these sentient Terraformers the Xenon were "born". Even in X3/TC/AP they do not arrive into sectors from nowhere, they follow the gates...

Do not let the used term "Xenon Hub" fool you. It was never used by the Xenon who totally ignored it even though it was in the middle of their "territory"...

'had' being the key word i.e. the past not the future

I think its a good idea.

[Blitz4]

What about nixing gates and creating one big universe in one sector?
I imagine the cpu would explode as no X game was designed like that. It's just a thought really.

No gates? Yea, it'd be a true open world. No hidden area beyond the visible sector borders on the map. Front lines are much larger now, so no more camping the bottlenecks, the gates, with tons of guns.

Yea there's highways everywhere, being built all the time. Enemies use different highways systems. Current and prior wars influence highway connectivity between factions. AGI don't need highways. They have jumpdrives. you use jumpdrives to teleport. All military have jumpdrives. Does that mean weaker factions invading larger allied factions don't stand a chance? Not at all. Jumpdrives don't work like in X3. jump scramblers are illegal tech preventing anyone from jumping within a certain radius of where it is deployed, like a satellite. There's no fuel needed to jump, it charges like in Star Trek, the smaller the ship, the faster that happens. The larger the ship, the greater the range.

..The present & prior wars determine the highway network. That is randomly generated at universe creation.

Like I said, it's just a thought. Focus on the Factions, their relationships and histories with one another across the years. Once that is defined, where stations and other things are placed will be built exactly where they belong.

[Blitz4]

I cannot see how how randomised map connections as suggested could allow for any intended balance between factions nor allow for a stable dynamic game economy.

That's what gets me. Why isn't it possible? There an out of sector simulation designed to minimize cpu usage. Say the entire universe was ran out of sector. How fast would it run? (In game time vs real-time)

If it's done fast enough, you can create multiple universes that way until you find a stable one.
Also, if it's done fast enough, that'd be one requirement to efficiently train AI, ie: AlphaStar