[7.0 Beta 2] Is teleporting Kha'ak the new normal? (Feedback)

[Scoob]

Hi,

It used to be that I'd see Kha'ak ships flying in from near the edge of the sector. This would give me time to perhaps organise a response if needed. Be it just to move a ship, or send something in to reinforce it. That said, with travel speeds being what they are, you still might only get a moment to do something, but that can be enough. Enough time for Interceptors to, well, intercept keeping the primary asset (the Miner) safe. I've seen this plenty of times during this beta, where I started fresh game especially. However, something has changed, their behaviour is different, they teleport rather than fly. I've seen this happen dozens of times this evening alone, at first I was wondering how I missed these Kha'ak coming in. Then I was watching the second they teleported one time, and I've seen it several times since.

Now, I simply see Kha'ak ships teleporting in right on top of my miners and destroying them in seconds. As they teleport in and are firing almost immediately, even guarding ships right next to their target are unable to respond in time. Sure, some might say "Switch to L-Class Miners" but that's so not the point here.

This is pure cheese and I really don't like it. Might as well just randomly blow up our ships and say "ah, the Kha'ak must have got them". I understood that people giving feedback on the "Crisis" mentioned teleporting Kha'ak, but I assumed that was a special feature of said Crisis. For regular plain old Kha'ak to be doing this now. No thank you.

Now, sure, Kha'ak having jump ability is lore - as it was of course for ALL ships, once upon a time - but I MUCH preferred how they jumped in right next to a Hive when I was threatened. Plus, how they'd fly in from the edge of the sector, to attack shipping nearer the centre. Their path could be followed back, to actually find the local hive.

I WANT Kha'ak to be a threat, but not a cheesy threat that teleports in and insta-kills ships. This will get old REALLY fast for me. Even if we could automate "reinforcements" to replace lost assets in the same role, it'd be a bit irksome.

What do people think? Should teleporting Kha'ak be a thing? If so, should they be able to teleport right on top of their intended targets?

[CBJ]

Moved to the main forum, since the last paragraph makes it clear that this is actually an invitation for discussion, which is explicitly excluded in the Public Beta Feedback forum rules.

[Scoob]

Moved to the main forum, since the last paragraph makes it clear that this is actually an invitation for discussion, which is explicitly excluded in the Public Beta Feedback forum rules.

Ah, sorry, I was just suggesting that perhaps others could add their own Feedback on this subject to this post in the 7.0 beta Feedback forum... Didn't realise that was against the rules. Should I not have asked others for their feedback explicitly then, rather keeping it implied? This topic is explicitly related to 7.0, as this behaviour is new to 7.0 isn't it?

Anyway, I was just here to post a screenshot to demonstrate how close the Kha'ak are teleporting in. I literally paused the instant they arrived, as I was watching for this.

Link to Screenshot

I think enemies able to jump literally right on top of Player assets (and those of other Factions of course) is a bit too much. Even with defending ships, as well as patrols and (luckily) nearby ships given direct orders to engage the Kha'ak, the proximity in which they teleport in, often means ship death is unavoidable.

[Zloth2]

They're teleporting in with version 6.2. If you attack a Kha'ak station, they just pop in around the station. If you are in close to the station, they can show up pretty close to your ship.

I'm not sure how far out they are when showing up to attack a miner. I've never caught them in the act.

[TroubledRabbit]

bugs always teleported. That made me rage quit X2 a few times

[alt3rn1ty]

They're teleporting in with version 6.2. If you attack a Kha'ak station, they just pop in around the station. If you are in close to the station, they can show up pretty close to your ship.

I'm not sure how far out they are when showing up to attack a miner. I've never caught them in the act.

They have always jumped in the Kha'ak around Kha'ak stations, hit the station enough and in they pop.

But this behaviour in mining fields is new, as Scoob describes.
I have a lot of mining activity in Nopilious Fortune II, and recently soon after 7 Beta went live, decided to spam the lower half of the sector with Advanced satellites covering the whole area being mined and add lots of patrols because of this problem. Previously all my L miners were doing a marvellous job of looking after themselves, but in the early testing of 7 beta I lost one which was very unusual, and then another .. so I focussed in on whats going on.

I can corroborate what Scoob has witnessed, all attacks in open space nowhere near any Kha'ak stations, Kha'ak are literally jumping in next to my miners, and in slightly greater numbers than before 7 beta. Used to be groups of 3-5 Kha'ak who would wander in from the edge of the sector or vicinity of an undiscovered station, now its groups of 3-7 who teleport in instead of wandering in and occasionally you will get a couple of such groups in the same vicinity all turn on the same miner meaning greater numbers versus one miner, who all just popped in out of nowhere.

Looking after miners has been a pain in that you cant really use M class anymore (unless you want the tedium of mothering them all, or worse adding lots of escorts per miner reducing performance), and now the threat increases plus jumping in next to miners has become a PITA for L miners too.

Its a crap unwanted change to previous behaviour. I dont know why this has been done, but its really putting me off the game having additional regular and unwelcome micromanagement.

[Zloth2]

...Previously all my L miners were doing a marvellous job of looking after themselves, but in the early testing of 7 beta I lost one which was very unusual, and then another .. so I focussed in on whats going on.

What kind of L miners? A Crane can regenerate shields a lot faster than a Wyvern. What kind of defenses did it have? A Crane with nothing but mining lasers can't do anything but regen shields until it finishes its mining (or all its drones get shot down) and it slooooowly drives out of the sector.

I don't think where the Kha'ak appear will matter for large miners. It's not like they have a long-range defense. As far as I know, it's all M turrets unless you give them some defense drones or an escort. (Hey, look! A use for the Hokkaido!)

[BitByte]

Does this teleporting happen during the play session or only shortly after loading?
Because after loading it's been common (and very unpleasant) atleast from 4.x that Kha'ak fleet(s) appear very near of miners.

If loaded game 5 times from same point and played 5 minutes it was possible loose between 0-3 M-size miners due Kha'ak. Sad part was that miners didn't even notify they were under attack.

Now this same behaviour occurs in 5.10hf3 with BUC whom S-size ships appear after each loading random amount in Pious Mists IV and Trinity Snactum VII (Pious Mists XI is exception as BUC is peaceful against my satellites and rest 2 sectors I have removed all satellites) and their primary target is destroy satellite coverage. If I don't initialize immediately attack against those non-fleet S-size ships and destroy them away they will destroy multiple satellites in couple minutes.

[alt3rn1ty]

...Previously all my L miners were doing a marvellous job of looking after themselves, but in the early testing of 7 beta I lost one which was very unusual, and then another .. so I focussed in on whats going on.

What kind of L miners? A Crane can regenerate shields a lot faster than a Wyvern. What kind of defenses did it have? A Crane with nothing but mining lasers can't do anything but regen shields until it finishes its mining (or all its drones get shot down) and it slooooowly drives out of the sector.

I don't think where the Kha'ak appear will matter for large miners. It's not like they have a long-range defense. As far as I know, it's all M turrets unless you give them some defense drones or an escort. (Hey, look! A use for the Hokkaido!)

Thing is, previously (ie prior to 7 Beta) Wyverns with Split Flak installed have always survived. So reliably, that I didn't need to monitor them.
For a looooong time before 7 Beta.

Whatever L Miners I am using, makes no difference whatsoever to this change in Kha'ak behaviour which is new to 7 Beta (whatever version, 1,2 or 3).
Its new behaviour that Scoob and I have witnessed. Which is what the topic is about. Not what type of L miners I am using.
Whether you think it does or does not, I can corroborate my experience with 7 Beta and the new behaviour of the Kha'ak does corroborate with Scoobs experience.
IE Kha'ak do appear via jumping directly to the location of your miners (when they previously did not), and they are more of a threat to L Miners (whatever L Miners you are using with the best defences appropriately installed), Kha'ak have become more of a threat to our Miners by increased numbers and the new ability of Jumping in to a location very near to our miners .. Which previously was not the case prior to 7 Beta.

[Socratatus]

I've not read the whole thing, just going off the title, but the latest patch beta 3 says teleporting khakk ships has been fixed.

[Scoob]

I've not read the whole thing, just going off the title, but the latest patch beta 3 says teleporting khakk ships has been fixed.

I'd not noticed that particular patch notes, thanks. I had a read, and still cannot see it, searching for both "Teleporting" and "Kha'ak". There's comment on a bug being fixed where small ships would teleport a very short distance upon being hit.

In my Beta 2 game it was getting silly, as you could see from the screenshot I shared. That Kha'ak (and a half-dozen or so others, seconds later) jumped in right on top of one of my Miners. There was a Kha'ak Station in the sector, but it was well over 100km away. Indeed, it wasn't visible from the centre of the sector, I had to adjust my viewpoint to near the edge of the explored area before it rendered in.

I ended up destroying the station, so I cannot make a direct comparison to their teleporting in Beta 3.

It was perfectly normal for Kha'ak to teleport in right next to one of their stations, but they could be seen actually flying deeper into the sector to attack shipping in v6.2 and earlier. I'm glad the teleporting directly to their target has been addressed though. Can others verify this is working for them?

[Socratatus]

I'm glad the teleporting directly to their target has been addressed though. Can others verify this is working for them?

ok, this is strange. I went back over the patch notes to find the line for you, but I can't find it. I know I saw it when I read the patch notes before I saw your post. I know I did. I did not imagine it.

I will check again in the morning when I'm less tired.

[Scoob]

ok, this is strange. I went back over the patch notes to find the line for you, but I can't find it. I know I saw it when I read the patch notes before I saw your post. I know I did. I did not imagine it.

I will check again in the morning when I'm less tired.

No worries. I've not seen any Kha'ak teleporting in Beta 3 thus far, but then I did eliminate the Kha'ak Station in that sector. Will keep monitoring things.

[xant]

I WANT Kha'ak to be a threat, but not a cheesy threat that teleports in and insta-kills ships. This will get old REALLY fast for me. Even if we could automate "reinforcements" to replace lost assets in the same role, it'd be a bit irksome.

What do people think? Should teleporting Kha'ak be a thing? If so, should they be able to teleport right on top of their intended targets?

I'm with you on this one. I enjoy the game for being a true simulation, and I only put up with the Kha'ak, because I could set up safeguards against their annoying spawns. Annoying, but manageable.

Now that they became much stronger, have access to destroyer-sized and faster-than-Rattlesnake Asgards on steroids, with plasma-strength beam turrets, they need some formal game rules to them, and a proper economy. They should not teleport via script, they should not have omniscience and always know where to attack, they should not get free ships and stations out of nothing.

Give them proper jumpdrives, which require ECells (or some other material) depending on how far the jump goes. They can only target stuff they see, so they have to use scouts. Their ships and stations have to be built using resources, their ships should get proper build times and facilities, and the Kha'ak as a faction should get some sectors. And like the Xenon, if you hunt them down in every sector of the known gate network, they should get destroyed and not magically come back.