[FEEDBACK] Existential Crisis

[Scoob]

For me, this Crisis needs to be very different. Currently it seems to be "we teleport to you, you dead now" type thing. So, it happens, or it doesn't, player has little control. They teleport to a strongly-defended point? Great, player wins. They teleport to a vulnerable spot, bypassing multiple layers of defences destroying critical assets? Player likely just reloads. Not fun.

What I'd like to see is that sense of creeping doom. Distant sectors getting nuked first, as a tide of enemies slowly encroach on Faction sectors. Have the "invasion" start far from any of the regular starting sectors. Recent exploration discovers a previously hidden threat type thing.

I've mentioned this before, but it's worth saying again, Litcube did a really good job of this in his mod for X3. The enemy invaded from distant sectors - new ones - and progressed through Faction space (new sectors for them too) along a "corridor" of these new sectors, before finally hitting the regular map. It was dead cool. The player had days to prepare, but the factions were steam-rollered without help.

Late-game "crisis" content where the player HAS to react, plan and fortify, then have those fortifications tested and NOT just bypassed is what I'd like to see.

Basically, my take on this would have been: New sectors discovered, perhaps up to a dozen or so. Other Factions move in and squabble for control - the player could be one of those taking a sector or two as well, if they're quick enough. As things settle down, a new, previously hidden or inactive gate starts coming to life. Factions flock to the location thinking another free-for-the-taking sector will be up for grabs. The gate becomes active. Faction ships race into the new sector.... bad things happen... From this start, the new sectors come under attack.

I've not triggered this event in my fresh start yet - I started again specifically for the v7.0 Beta - but I cannot be too far off that half-billion credit Military trigger. I am leaning towards mostly Fighter-class military assets, with Corvettes and Frigates too. Really, Plasma-equipped Fighters are THE counter to enemy capital ships. I can churn them out quickly and cheaply, easily replace them and of course now salvage any experienced Pilots.

To be clear, I am excited about the prospect of a late game "big bad". For me, that'd previously be the Xenon, as my end-game goal would be to wipe them out entirely. I welcome the appearance of dangerous Kha'ak again, like we had in prior games. I just don't want them simply teleporting past any defences, they need to progress, lines need to be able to be drawn, fleets mustered to face the threat etc. As a throw-back to the original and great X - Beyond the Frontier, there should be options to call on our allies for help so they too can muster fleets to assist. How we've helped, or hindered, other Factions will have a potentially significant impact.

[Starlight_Corporation]

Anyone has an idea how long the delay option delays the Crisis?

[ubuntufreakdragon]

I think the current crisis does not enrich the game.

Start conditions:
I had an enormous empire when starting the beta but no crisis as I just did not build more than a handful of military ships, I tend to outsource such expensive tasks to the NPCs by building them a strong defence station, and providing an always supplied shipyard.
So to start the crisis I Mass produced some Asgards.
So the crisis comes way to late if it should be a crisis.

There is no progression economy or anything else to fight the crisis:
It is just a brain dead spawn of some ships in you populated systems.
Twice they just targeted my HQ, I just jumped it somewhere else leaving an empty system to raid.
There should be secret bases providing the attackers, that can be scouted and eliminated to prevent the attack.

It also doesn't make that much sense that Xenon and Kha'ak focus on the player especially if the player is the only faction ignoring them.
The crisis need to have its own economy and a strategic level that allows fighting back and does not ignore defence lines.

Ho I would write a Crisis:
A management AGI within the player company gone rouge.
First some stations start to miss 1-5% budget on random occassions.
Or automated ships get unfitting trade tasks to deliver some crisis build plots.
You shipyards get some unpaid tasks from time to time.
At some point Boso mentions irregularities and offers to pay external analysts to track them down.(more believable prevent option)
The crisis builds its HQ(or a CPU ship) and starts to give unpaid mass production orders to your shipyards for military ships.
The final step is an unauthorized download of many of your blueprints, that always reveals the crisis.
Then there will be a conflicting faction that focuses on the player.
Just like Litcube's Phanon Corporation for X3.
Killing the HQ ends the crisis for now but the AGI may have uploaded itself somewhere else.

[CBJ]

Again, please stick to providing feedback on Public Beta features when posting in this forum. If you want to suggest something completely different then please do so in the main forum.

[chew-ie]

If the crisis doesn't get a major overhaul I strongly suggest to make it a mission-like spawnfest which requires the player to activate it.

As ubuntufreakdragon (and others, myself included) already said: the current idea of the crisis doesn't enrich the game. TBH far from it or to be more precise: quite the opposite.

It's save to say on my part: if the crisis stay this way they'll keep me from playing the game.

[MadGoodman]

Ok what i have seen while playing:

Crisis - in sinza Boso talk and talk and talk ... too much !

After Crisis Boso talks and talks and talks ... too much and always same without a quest or a target sector !

Crisis main quest is horrible - really not funny to find a ship before crisis fleets spawn into sector.


AND:

Xenon can expand with unfinished station builds - so they plan to build a station in sector A - then they are able to plan a build in sector B - and same to sector C ... so many unfinished xenon stations are in serval sectors without xenon sector nearby.
Think this problem comes from Beta !

Station storages remain when deleting an own station. I need an option to "kill" this storages - because i dont need those wares and building wares anymore - i only want to get em removed !

Meanwhile i hate this crisis - i spend my time in a small S-Scout and try to find target ship before crisis fleets spawn. Dont know if this is the right way to get this quest finished but it would be better to win 3 or 5 Crisis events than this stupid search !
When entering first Xenon ship there is no way to get a pilot in it. I have to land on a GKS or a station and talk to an npc - choose role - and make this npc to a captain. No other way found to get a pilot in to be captain.

[Diroc]

Existential Failure

I found the Existential Crisis quest to be thoroughly disappointing.
The design of the invasion is a cheap and desperate attempt to create losses for the player. Spawning Xenon battleship fleets in sectors with high player presence and multiple Kha'ak equivalents of an Asgard (Ravager) with fighter swarm escorts on top of player assets just feels lazy.
The Ravagers are equipped with a superweapon and high damage guns that don't miss.

"Meh, lost a couple ships in another invasion sector." is a far cry from a crisis.
Even with 4 separate sectors under siege concurrently, annoyance seemed the best adjective.
I struggle to find a target audience for this blatant cheating garbage.

The only true "Existential Crisis" is for Egosoft. The Xenon aggression and resources available to the Xenon have been seriously nerfed early on.
With the release of Cradle of Humanity, the Xenon sectors were put under siege from Asgard battleship groups.
If left unchecked, the apex predator intended to remove resouces from the system is exterminated from the game.
This leaves "Cheating" ships into the game as the only reliable solution.
Offending the player's intelligence by doing this is just the cherry on the top.
As an experienced player with thousands of hours of playtime logged, I was "Annoyed" for over 40 hours by this quest.

The reality check is this is a "Best case scenario."

The worst case scenario is the new players who just meet the criteria for this "quest" and don't chose the extortion option.
A game that respects a simulated economy. A game they are still learning... Suddenly stops doing so.
Ships with a superweapon start appearing on their limited assets and blowing them up.
The ensuing negative review bomb from new players being honest about their frustration will not be a good thing.
"Because Kha'ak..." is not an excuse that means anything. It won't help you.

In the interests of full disclosure:
As game sales fund updates for a game I enjoy playing, one could say I have a vested interest in the outcome.

I do not believe the Existential Crisis quest can be saved in any meaningful way.
I think adding it to the retail version would be a mistake that will do more harm than good.

I would like to see a Ravager defending Kha'ak stations once they reach a critical size.

[Axeface]

I have some quick questions. For the last few nights I've built up (spam minimum loadout asgards) to get the crisis to activate, it activated and I've now dont several attacks.

What I'm seeing seems to be quite different to what others are talking about here. For example, in the very first attack there are Kha'ak but in all subsequent attacks there are only Xenon - 1 I, 3 K's and assorted fighters. These Xenon attacks are very easy to defeat, I'm just using a group of 3 Phoenix E's and 4 Peregrines - I mention all of this because there are several replies in this thread talking about the Kha'ak being in these attacks and being very powerful. Is my game bugged?

Another thing I noticed - the Xenon always spawn with a single Kha'ak forager with them - Boso keeps telling me to pay attention at the start of the attacks because we might be able to learn something and I suspect this lone Kha'ak forager might be the key, so I have been desperately trying to get close to the spawn to scan or kill this forager - am I chasing ghosts here? Does this actually have anything to do with what boso is saying?

Lastly, I've done perhaps 8 crisis events but the one I am on now keeps failing for no reason - my destroyers are engaging the Xenon fleet and the mission just fails. Is this another known bug?

I'll give more feedback once I get through it, I assume something is going to happen once I have done enough events (Or I solve the mystery of the forager/bosos suggestion about looking for clues).

[EGO_Aut]

@Axeface
Same here, after Xenon spawn maybe 10min then the mission fails. I have to kill the Xenon real fast to make Boso happy

[IratusAvis]

Unfortunately, I don't like the "crisis" in its current form. It wasn't existential for me at all. I defended the sectors and defeated the final boss at the end. It wasn't really challenging and a bit annoying.

It would be existential if you lost all your property in the Vigor Casino, it continued to exist as a new faction and you might have to start all over again from a prison.

Or if the Xenon, who have long since been wiped out in my game, could rebuild themselves, get a big bonus on firepower and perhaps temporarily interrupt the connection between jump gates.

[ange]

I can't even get around to doing anything other than chasing the xenon. I have a lot of firepower and destroy all the Xenon/Khaakh quickly, but then the next attack comes. The only time I have time for the game and micromanagement is to press PAUSE and then adjust everything. So far I don't see any change in the attacks. Just blunt attack after attack and that randomly.
I find such an endgame boring and useless. I do not need that. Then I'd rather be bored in the xenon-empty universe than fend off pointless xenon attacks.

Xenon construction ships that come with the attacks are important to me. So I could build a xenon zoo again in a sector rich in raw materials. But there are no new xenon mining ships.

Are the attacks endless? Or is there variety? Since 7 Beta 3 there are no KHK ships, only xenon.

The existential crisis must be made more complicated and endable. Or the breaks between attacks need to be extended.

I've only uncovered two of the new sectors. No time between attacks.

[Axeface]

So I'm confused, but I think I know what was going on...
I just tried to catch the kha'ak forager while being in high attention - previously I was trying to do it in low attention or teleporting to my ships once it had spawned. This time I was close to the Xenon I (like 5km) and it did its usual pooping out of the forager - and now Kha'ak are spawning and Boso mentions the ship...

So, it looks like i've been wasting my time for the last 2 nights doing Xenon only incursions.... why make it high attention only, if that is the case? Most players are trained to avoid high attention fighters against xenon because it is entirely different to OOS and almost always a death sentence for all of your M ships (this disparity is another issue entirely and imo should be one of the highest priorities to fix).

To anyone not getting Kha'ak, get close to the I when the fleet spawns and wait for it to poop out a forager.

[Axeface]

Most players are trained to avoid high attention fighters

I mean fights, not fighters

[Breathtaker]

General Feedback on the crisis system as a whole.
My "crisis" was boring and frustrating. The only really fun part was the beginning of it.
A big battle involving several factions is really cool. You don't see that in X4 very often. However, the whole subsequent game experience related to the crisis completely ruined all the fun.

In my opinion, the current implementation of Crisis is not what X4: Foundations deserves. Many players have written about it and I think it's true. A crisis should be a build on the game's strengths, not a break on them.

A few things that I think should be changed in current implementation:

• Xenon always attacks sectors where there are player's assets - this is weird and not explained by the narrative. I think it should be explained to the player why xenon is after the player or redone this system.
• Need to add the ability to track the progress of sector defense.
• Need to add the ability to track when the crisis is over. It got to the point where I was tracking crisis progress with the $RemainingCrisisPoints variable in the save file because after the 10th defended sector I thought the game just broke. By the way, BETA 3 seems to have broken the Crisis progression, this number doesn't decrease anymore in my new savegame.
• Something needs to be done about the number of sector attacks. I've defended over 10 sectors and it's very annoying at the end of the day. Maybe if the attack fleets were more diverse it would improve the situation a bit, but in the current implementation we get a boring Groundhog Day.
• Something needs to be done with Boso's dialogue after defending the sector. He repeats the same monologue about the President’s End very often - it's very strange and suggests that the game is broken.

Feedback regarding when the crisis starts (player readiness for example)
I created Custom Gamestart, so I was fully prepared. The crisis started almost as soon as the Custom Gamestart started.

Feedback on the strength of the Crisis or individual ships
I did all the battles in the sector and in general it seemed that the balance was fine. If the AI controlling the destroyers would use their directional guns (instead of turrets) against the ravagers, it would be perfect.

Feedback on how relevant the location is for the player, where the crisis appeared
The first and second battles were in locations where I had the most of my assets. The next 5 battles started near the same scout (after the start of each next battle I sent him to a neighboring sector). After this scout was destroyed, the battles started near other ships in sectors less populated by me.

p.s.
As I said, the current implementation seems weak and even fixing all the comments I wrote won't fix it.
I would love it if you would delay the release of Crisis and rework it if you have the ability to do so.

Thank you for your attention.

[SpaceCadet11864]

Is crisis supposed to start without any conversation or indication? I just had K's and I's attacking a system that I had a few stations in, then the K's and I's were stuck because they were surrounded by KHK fighters. There was a ravager also off in the distance but it did nothing.

First message from Boso Ta was something about the Khaak running off the Xenon. Then after I got into the system he said something about the large Khaak ship, how he hasnt seen one in a long time or something. Then after 5-10 minutes he said something bad was happening and we needed to talk, and I had a 30 minute timer to talk to Boso Ta. This was while the first invasion was happening.

I easily dispatched the K's and I's, with a single rattlesnake. It was very easy. The Ravager was still very far away and using the Live stream view, it showed that its current orders were to "patrol" - it was just patrolling a very remote area far from any activity.

So I talked to Boso Ta and he gave me the run-down. I used the delay option.

Then I took a single nemesis sentinel, and flew it over to the Ravager, and kited it all the way to a teladi antimatter factory. A very basic factory then destroyed ther ravager.

I used a single rattlesnake, that was not modified, pretty sure using "low" or "medium" preset, and I used a single nemesis and obliterated the first wave. All these posts about using modified destroyers and the like makes me laugh.

MY over all impression is it seemed very bugged, given that the Xenon were "stuck" - but really 2 K's and an I is a joke, I regularly run into more challenging situations defending sectors that are regularly invaded. The quest seemed to happen out of order as well.

[LameFox]

Is crisis supposed to start without any conversation or indication? I just had K's and I's attacking a system that I had a few stations in, then the K's and I's were stuck because they were surrounded by KHK fighters. There was a ravager also off in the distance but it did nothing.

First message from Boso Ta was something about the Khaak running off the Xenon. Then after I got into the system he said something about the large Khaak ship, how he hasnt seen one in a long time or something. Then after 5-10 minutes he said something bad was happening and we needed to talk, and I had a 30 minute timer to talk to Boso Ta. This was while the first invasion was happening.

I easily dispatched the K's and I's, with a single rattlesnake. It was very easy. The Ravager was still very far away and using the Live stream view, it showed that its current orders were to "patrol" - it was just patrolling a very remote area far from any activity.

So I talked to Boso Ta and he gave me the run-down. I used the delay option.

Then I took a single nemesis sentinel, and flew it over to the Ravager, and kited it all the way to a teladi antimatter factory. A very basic factory then destroyed ther ravager.

I used a single rattlesnake, that was not modified, pretty sure using "low" or "medium" preset, and I used a single nemesis and obliterated the first wave. All these posts about using modified destroyers and the like makes me laugh.

MY over all impression is it seemed very bugged, given that the Xenon were "stuck" - but really 2 K's and an I is a joke, I regularly run into more challenging situations defending sectors that are regularly invaded. The quest seemed to happen out of order as well.

Ravagers didn't do very well in my experience either, but I think it was a high/low attention thing. They have a powerful gun that can do a lot of damage if the player is not watching, but if you're there, it rarely ever gets fired. I actually saw one in the process of killing an Asgard (not modified, but with full mk2 Terran XL shields) but when I realized it was happening I teleported there and suddenly it was harmless.

[Hammerhirsch]

Hey Egosoft,

I'm a big fan of the game, it's one of my favorites!

Honestly, just spawning enemies can feel a bit repetitive. A system with a growing Xenon / Kha'ak threat due to their economic power would be more engaging for me. Imagine a Xenon economy on steroids, conquering sectors one by one.

Thanks again for this amazing game!

[SpaceCadet11864]

Ok, so not 100% sure if this how it's supposed to be, but this is how it played out in my game.

1. So first there is an intro scenario with a ravager and some xenon destroyers.
2. Then you get a message from boso ta and then you talk to him where you can delay, pay 500 million to turn it off, or fight them.
3. When delaying, I think its 12 hours or maybe 1 day, not 100%
4. When fighting, I had to leave the station when I was awaiting the briefing to get message on where to go.
5. Then I had to defend a sector from an I and 3 Ks, with some fighters.
6. They didnt spawn until I physically got there, and then it took some time before they appeared. I was trying to get some forces there and the xenon were busy destroying a station, so I just wanted to wait them out and maybe see if they'd break apart or something. But then the mission failed and then I had another system to go to.
7. I went to the next system, I had better forces there.. the mission then succeeded as soon as I attacked the xenon, like right when the mission started.
8. Boso Ta said something about the khaak forces running away, but there were not any khaak forces at all in both attacks.

I'm currently just letting the xenon destroy everything just to see how bad it really can be. So far what I noticed is they just loiter in the area after they attacked the first station they saw, and are not doing anything but hanging around where the station was. IT's been an hour and they're just still doing there thing there, hanging out and enjoying the sights I suppose

[SpaceCadet11864]

Sorry for the double post, but here's a screen shot of about 1 hour after they invaded the sector, they are still in the same spot. THe Khaak never showed up and the mission succeeded as soon I flung some bombers at them. https://imgur.com/a/VrMEI4P

I just let the game play itself for a couple hours and yeah, they're still hanging out there.. bombers all died, but I was expecting that because I only sent 10 S class ships at the I, and it was protected by fighters anyway they're just still hanging out there.

[capitalduty]

Hey Egosoft,

I'm a big fan of the game, it's one of my favorites!

Honestly, just spawning enemies can feel a bit repetitive. A system with a growing Xenon / Kha'ak threat due to their economic power would be more engaging for me. Imagine a Xenon economy on steroids, conquering sectors one by one.

Thanks again for this amazing game!

I also thinks this should be the case. Spawning these ships one time at a xenon sector and from there they start launching attacks could be a better solution, this and a better Xenon/Khaak economy so the can really challenge the universe!