[7.0 Beta 3] Captains removed from Captured Xenon ships (Save)

[Scoob]

Hi,

Please examine this vanilla saved game.

In it, check out my Wharf "06 Shipyard: S/M: x3, L: x0, XL: x0 (PKS-546)".

Docked to it are several Xenon ships that bailed. In beta 2, all of these ships were able to be commanded, either having a Pilot added by me or not needing one after I manually claimed them. Now, after loading my save in Beta 3, several of these ships no longer have Captains and I cannot assign new ones.

The first two Xenon B's - named "Corvette - B" by me - each had Pilots and Crew manually assigned. However, one retained a Pilot, the other did not. For the one that did not, as it retained the Service Crew, as I was able to use the "promote" option to give it a Pilot again. With the Xenon PEs though, they had no service crew (no option) and have lost the Xenon Pilots they came with.

Thankfully, using "Work somewhere else for me" fixes the issue.

I posted to share the issue impacting already owned ships, as well as provide what worked to fix it. I assume this is simply the result of fixing Xenon bailing to need a Pilot to be assigned.

[j.harshaw]

several of these ships no longer have Captains and I cannot assign new ones.

added underlining for emphasis
...

Thankfully, using "Work somewhere else for me" fixes the issue.

Sorry, but I'm confused. Are you able or unable to assign captains to these ships? Or was there a more convenient way that doesn't work in 7.0 beta 3 with these ships in particular?

[VisigothX]

I will admit, I was kinda shocked to see all 51 of my captured xenon ships without pilots on loading save. All of them were piloted by what I assumed was the remaining Xenon AI. It took a few minutes but all 51 accepted new captains without issue.

[Scoob]

several of these ships no longer have Captains and I cannot assign new ones.

added underlining for emphasis
...

Thankfully, using "Work somewhere else for me" fixes the issue.

Sorry, but I'm confused. Are you able or unable to assign captains to these ships? Or was there a more convenient way that doesn't work in 7.0 beta 3 with these ships in particular?

Sorry, I really wasn't clear. I meant that I could not assign new Pilots at the Wharf remotely. I.e. The affected ships were sat at my Wharf. I went to remotely outfit them, but the option to assigned a Pilot was greyed out and could not be selected. Manually assigning - via Work Somewhere else - a crew member already assigned to another ship however, did work.

I've never had a Pilotless ship docked at a Wharf before, so I expected to be able to use the regular "Upgrade / Repair docked ships" option to add a Pilot. I presume however, that it's the lack of a Pilot that prevents me assigning a Pilot as there's no pilot to give that order to. I.e. the Wharf isn't assigning a Pilot to the Ship, rather the ship is requesting a Pilot... which it cannot do without a Pilot, like other upgrades. I had expected it to work for assigning a Pilot when there is no pilot though.

Did that make sense?

[j.harshaw]

Yup, gotcha.

Ok, thanks both for confirming. For my part, I can confirm that xenon pilots on player-owned ships (and on ownerless ships) have been removed in beta 3 and should no longer be retained on ships that you've forced to bail.
I'll look into being able to get them pilots in equipment docks but strongly suspect that that's a no-go since, as Scoob mentioned, that requires an order on the ship.

[Scoob]

Yup, gotcha.

Ok, thanks both for confirming. For my part, I can confirm that xenon pilots on player-owned ships (and on ownerless ships) have been removed in beta 3 and should no longer be retained on ships that you've forced to bail.
I'll look into being able to get them pilots in equipment docks but strongly suspect that that's a no-go since, as Scoob mentioned, that requires an order on the ship.

I suspect this is a one-off situation that'll not occur again. We cannot build ships without Pilots, but we can fly ships ourselves which haven't got them. It would be nice, perhaps, to be able to manually fly a freshly claimed ship to a Wharf, exit that ship and perhaps teleport away. Then remotely request a Pilot for that ship from the Wharf, rather than manually assigning one to work there.

[Saint of Grey]

Yup, gotcha.

Ok, thanks both for confirming. For my part, I can confirm that xenon pilots on player-owned ships (and on ownerless ships) have been removed in beta 3 and should no longer be retained on ships that you've forced to bail.
I'll look into being able to get them pilots in equipment docks but strongly suspect that that's a no-go since, as Scoob mentioned, that requires an order on the ship.

I got confirmation of the opposite directly from Tomonor in the discord... they actually asked me to provide a save where a H I boarded didn't keep the unknown captain.

[Ketraar]

We cannot build ships without Pilots, but we can fly ships ourselves which haven't got them. It would be nice, perhaps, to be able to manually fly a freshly claimed ship to a Wharf, exit that ship and perhaps teleport away. Then remotely request a Pilot for that ship from the Wharf, rather than manually assigning one to work there.

Why is that not possible. I just started the Young Gun start which has you stand on a Edock with a pilotless Ship. I was able to com a NPC on another ship and tell it to work somewhere else for me, choosing the docked Elite and select Captain as job.

I also was able to select another ship and RMB on the docked Elite and use the Transfer Crew options, which allows me to also directly assign a captain during the crew transfer.

Unless I misunderstood your point.

MFG

Ketraar

[13913408324]

They are machines, they have AI.They still retained their AI when they were captured, this is isreasonable.

[electricalfrost]

From my most recent experience, I had captured a Xenon PE after loading my Beta 2 save in Beta 3, which also had the same conundrum.
I had initially assumed it affected ships already captured, but it could also extend to all SE/PE operating within Beta 3.

[Saint of Grey]

Given how you're unable to directly assign a captain to a built ship, and most of the xenon ships have no crew capacity, it means the only way to give my now-empty fleet captains is through the worker interface or by talking to potential captains in person.

I get the impression the unknown pilots disappearing is not intended, or someone didn't fully think through the implications of taking them out.

[j.harshaw]

My apologies if anything was unclear.

Players getting xenon pilots in any way was a bug. This is fixed in beta 3 and should no longer be possible. Any xenon pilots that were working for the player in beta 3 have thus been removed.

[Scoob]

Unless I misunderstood your point.

MFG

Ketraar

Hi,

Yes. I meant the option is unavailable from the Equip screen at a Wharf or Equipment dock. In this specific example - Xenon pilots removed - my ships were sat at my Wharf, I was elsewhere. I'd hoped to be able to add a Pilot remotely through the regular outfitting interface, but the Captain option is greyed out. I can, and did, give a "Work somewhere else" order to an existing employee, already on one of my other ships. I could not however get a new Captain from the Wharf.

While this issue is due to the Xenon Captains being taken away - as they should not have been there in the first place - the Outfitting UI does not allow Captains to be assigned to a ship that does not currently have one. I get that regular upgrades need a Captain on the ship to actually get done. However, the UI allows us to outfit a ship without a Captain, but doesn't allow us to assign a Captain in order to get it done.

I usually assign a Captain (work somewhere else for me) immediately after taking control of a ship. I then order it to outfitting somewhere. However, as mentioned, it might be nice to be able to land a a ship without a backup Pilot at a Wharf, then later remotely add a Captain. I'm thinking very early-game, when I have more Captured ships than I have pilots for. Sure there are other ways to achieve this, so it's by no means a big deal. It'd just be nice if the Outfitting UI allowed us to assign a Captain at that point - as we can when requesting a new build.

[Ketraar]

I see, so not a bug, since you never could hire a captain via the equip menu, you would always have to chat up an NPC or move crew form elsewhere.

MFG

Ketraar

[Saint of Grey]

Unless I misunderstood your point.

MFG

Ketraar

Hi,

Yes. I meant the option is unavailable from the Equip screen at a Wharf or Equipment dock. In this specific example - Xenon pilots removed - my ships were sat at my Wharf, I was elsewhere. I'd hoped to be able to add a Pilot remotely through the regular outfitting interface, but the Captain option is greyed out. I can, and did, give a "Work somewhere else" order to an existing employee, already on one of my other ships. I could not however get a new Captain from the Wharf.

While this issue is due to the Xenon Captains being taken away - as they should not have been there in the first place - the Outfitting UI does not allow Captains to be assigned to a ship that does not currently have one. I get that regular upgrades need a Captain on the ship to actually get done. However, the UI allows us to outfit a ship without a Captain, but doesn't allow us to assign a Captain in order to get it done.

I usually assign a Captain (work somewhere else for me) immediately after taking control of a ship. I then order it to outfitting somewhere. However, as mentioned, it might be nice to be able to land a a ship without a backup Pilot at a Wharf, then later remotely add a Captain. I'm thinking very early-game, when I have more Captured ships than I have pilots for. Sure there are other ways to achieve this, so it's by no means a big deal. It'd just be nice if the Outfitting UI allowed us to assign a Captain at that point - as we can when requesting a new build.

Yea, this is what I meant when I said "not thought through". I have a whole fleet of ships just camping at a wharf that I need to assign pilots too individually (a 20 minute affair at this point), right after I was assured by a dev that any xenon ship not having a built-in pilot was a bug and should be reported with a save.

[Ketraar]

right after I was assured by a dev that any xenon ship not having a built-in pilot was a bug and should be reported with a save.

This is likely miscommunication or misunderstanding. As mentioned above the bug was having "unknown pilots" and as such they got removed, aka bug fixed.

This is a beta and bugs can happen, you would have had to assign the pilots anyway, the difference is that you had "free" ones for a while and now have to do it all at once.

MFG

Ketraar

[Tomonor]

right after I was assured by a dev that any xenon ship not having a built-in pilot was a bug and should be reported with a save.

Yeah, sorry, this is entirely on me. I interpreted the notes for this bug incorrectly and communicated the opposite of what's intended and what's a bug to you. I'm sorry.

[Franken]

For me it was also no Bug. I tought the Xenon-Pilot-Software was hacked by the player, so it could be used as the original build in Pilot Software by inputing simple orders.
In my oppinion it is not logic, that the Xenon would build a cockpit in some shipmodels for ... I dont know for what they schould do so.
So comanding xenonships via hacked pilotsoftware would make more sence for me.

[SpaceCadet11864]

right after I was assured by a dev that any xenon ship not having a built-in pilot was a bug and should be reported with a save.

This is likely miscommunication or misunderstanding. As mentioned above the bug was having "unknown pilots" and as such they got removed, aka bug fixed.

This is a beta and bugs can happen, you would have had to assign the pilots anyway, the difference is that you had "free" ones for a while and now have to do it all at once.

MFG

Ketraar

This is a shame. I really loved the unknown pilots thing, I thought it was only the player could capture it and that the xenon AGI pilot was still in there. I thought it was really cool and sad to see it go. That being said, I totally get why others didn't like the mechanic and capturing each xenon ship as player only was a pain, I thought it was a novel and interesting difference. Now I'm also seeing Yaki capture them which is neat too. Just love having differences and nuances. But wanted to say, I really liked that it was different but I am a complexity enjoyer.

[Saint of Grey]

right after I was assured by a dev that any xenon ship not having a built-in pilot was a bug and should be reported with a save.

Yeah, sorry, this is entirely on me. I interpreted the notes for this bug incorrectly and communicated the opposite of what's intended and what's a bug to you. I'm sorry.

I accept your apology but I'm still hurt about this. Please let it be known this change has made me really angry since I don't want my crew's grubby organic mitts fowling up my beautiful xenon fleet.