If Steam is made Essential to X game Will you buy them?

[garethherbert]

totaly moronic answer time
i take it that steam is a way to download a game..




if thats the case how about all the peeps with limited/no internet connection thats a great marketing policy kill half your market in one go.


i got into Xbyf from a copy bought at a computer fair otherwise i would have never heard of it. since then i have bought XGold from the website, X2 and X3 from a local shop. i gave my copy of xbyf to a friend who has no internet at home who has since bought X2 and X3 as well and love it all.
waffel over

in answer to poll if X4 was steam only ... No i would not buy it .

[soRahms]

*shrug* I don't know anything about steam, and as far as I knew, you pay online, and it downloads, and its installed, and you play.


So maybe, if you want people to agree with you, try explaining what the system is exactly, because at the moment I think most of the people who do know are the ones who have used steam (and most are happy with it).


Whats on the disc you buy? Is the game on it, or just the steam sotware and some sort of license to download it from them....

[Paranoid66]

I voted no. Because like the man said you shouldn't have to log on for an offline game - unless you want too. I hope EGOSOFT appreciate the depth of feeling on this one and continue to supply off as well as on line. Variety is the spice of life just don't try to force me to - EAT CAKE - and like it!

[CBJ]

i personally see that if you miss a small black box on the rear of a dvd case you have no longer got any rights at all to return the game

That's like saying that it's not your fault if you didn't read the system requirements on the box and get home to find your game doesn't run on your PC. It is up to the retailer whether to allow you to return the game in this instance, but they have no legal obligation to do so, since it isn't their fault that you didn't read it carefully enough.

f i buy an original disk there should be no reason at all to have to go online to register the game, ok to get updates from here you have to register your game, but you dont have to have another programme running to do this.

I don't really see the difference which program does the connecting. Why is this so very different to something like NWN which checks for patches within the load screen?

Some people in some places only use public or work computers to access the internet, why should anyone for any reason have to have thier computer attached to the internet to play an offline game...

5 years ago this would have been an invincible argument. Right now it is a debateable point with some validity. In another 5 years time it will be completely irrelevant.

[Paranoid66]

Some people in some places only use public or work computers to access the internet, why should anyone for any reason have to have thier computer attached to the internet to play an offline game...

5 years ago this would have been an invincible argument. Right now it is a debateable point with some validity. In another 5 years time it will be completely irrelevant.

True but now is now. Besides I am in the process of putting the specs together to build a system to play X3, my first build. This bare bones system will not be attached to the internet nor will it need to be. If my copy was on steam I would need to add the extra cost of an internet connection (extra hardware and software) and no doubt slow my purpose built sytem down in the process - why would I want to do this?

[bob hope]

when you buy a disk, you expect to buy the game, with only minor touching on the form of security, yet after sizeable install of dark messiah, i then had a sizeable download from steam for it too (between 225kbps and 235 kbps for 6 hours) then after that i decided the system needed defragging and to my annoyance nothing that was associated with dark messiah and steam at the same time could be defragged. i also at that time was wondering where 20gig of hard drive space had gone. So this morning after playing for a while i find i am bored to tears with dark messiah and its uninspired gameplay, and uninstall it, i had 8 to 10 gig of space left while installed, after uninstall i had a shock because i now have 30 gig free space ...... all for a game thats supposed to take up just short of 7gig.

That to me shows that if bought on a disk steam ignores the install and installs its own version also leaving the unpacked data floating about somewhere, this to my mind would just about cover the 20 gig of space it took.

About the steam and not knowing what it is, thats why i put the uh whats steam option, and since no one has ticked that so far at the time of me writing it must mean that either people know what steam is, or theyre scared of saying we have no idea what this is, and if thyer scared of that then they dont realise what they could be agreeing to in just buying and opening a steam game (note that purchase of a steam game if they have been opened can invalidate any consumer right to return, because on the box you agree to return it unopened)

[CBJ]

True but now is now.

Now is indeed now, but the poll in this thread is about the future. How many games are only available through Steam at the moment?

This bare bones system will not be attached to the internet nor will it need to be. If my copy was on steam I would need to add the extra cost of an internet connection (extra hardware and software) and no doubt slow my purpose built sytem down in the process - why would I want to do this?

Because increasingly you won't have a choice. Installing Windows will require it, installing all your favourite software will require it. And as for the "extra hardware and software", that is not really a very strong argument. Most motherboards already have LAN facilities built in and many have wireless. Connecting to the internet will be a feature of PCs, not an optional extra.

[bob hope]

i personally see that if you miss a small black box on the rear of a dvd case you have no longer got any rights at all to return the game

That's like saying that it's not your fault if you didn't read the system requirements on the box and get home to find your game doesn't run on your PC. It is up to the retailer whether to allow you to return the game in this instance, but they have no legal obligation to do so, since it isn't their fault that you didn't read it carefully enough.

f i buy an original disk there should be no reason at all to have to go online to register the game, ok to get updates from here you have to register your game, but you dont have to have another programme running to do this.

I don't really see the difference which program does the connecting. Why is this so very different to something like NWN which checks for patches within the load screen?

Some people in some places only use public or work computers to access the internet, why should anyone for any reason have to have thier computer attached to the internet to play an offline game...

5 years ago this would have been an invincible argument. Right now it is a debateable point with some validity. In another 5 years time it will be completely irrelevant.

1st point, online games advertise on the front of the game they need internet access to play, Steam hides it on the back, in fact in a lot stores there is tags saying this is an internet game and once bought is non returnable, Star Wars Galaxies had internet essential on the front, but steam has a lot of info in very small lettering in a small panel on the back, on Sin Eisodes its the smallest writing on the box.

2nd point is the fact that you need the programme to update, you can get hold of updates for neverwinter on different computers which dont have it installed at all, if i wanted one computer for gaming and another for internet i could use the internet computer to download patches, mods, scripts whatever then transfer it to the offline computer, noty possible with steam as far as i see.

3rd point can we have an explanation why you see that as debatable? Its true some people cant get internet, are you saying that in 5 years time people should have no choice as if to have internet, because if they want to play a game they should have it ..... thats just plain daft, because you could then see governments introducing gaming liscences based on the fact you have internet (like tv liscences) you use it for enjoyment, you can pay for the repetitive rubbish being released like you do for bbc1 and 2 in the uk

[garethherbert]

increasingly you won't have a choice. Installing Windows will require it, installing all your favourite software will require it. And as for the "extra hardware and software", that is not really a very strong argument. Most motherboards already have LAN facilities built in and many have wireless. Connecting to the internet will be a feature of PCs, not an optional extra.[/quote]

i will admit to not being the most technicly minded of people but i do like to have a good idea of what is on my computer, to me this steam idea is a tad scary...........yes i am slightly paranoid sorry.

[garethherbert]

unable to get qupte thingy to work growl

[Tracker001]

Evan though I have a fast connection to the net. I still vote NO . I like to have the disk.

Haveing the disk eleminates the number of posible reasons for a problem exsiting if one should arise.

[bob hope]

True but now is now.

Now is indeed now, but the poll in this thread is about the future. How many games are only available through Steam at the moment?

This bare bones system will not be attached to the internet nor will it need to be. If my copy was on steam I would need to add the extra cost of an internet connection (extra hardware and software) and no doubt slow my purpose built sytem down in the process - why would I want to do this?

Because increasingly you won't have a choice. Installing Windows will require it, installing all your favourite software will require it. And as for the "extra hardware and software", that is not really a very strong argument. Most motherboards already have LAN facilities built in and many have wireless. Connecting to the internet will be a feature of PCs, not an optional extra.

errm LAN only means you have networking availability, and if the wireless is set up wrong even that may not connect to the internet (something to do with the way the network is set and wirless saying it can either access the internet or access the other computers on the network not both, mate sets up networks i dont lol)

With the fact windows is changing its name to Vista (this is pedantic i know) and the fact its still not online essential (thats supposed to be the version after Vista according to reports) this means that its still not essential to be online for any reason other than steam says so.

Yes i am online, i have an ethernet based connection, but i like to be offline for games, and i dont like the fact some third party is telling me how to run my computer, while its making my system unstable.

Seemingly to answer your question about Steam and game availability, anything using the Valve Source engine needs it, halflife 2 countestrike (rumours half life 1 needs it now) Sin Episodes, Dark Messiah collectors edition (if you want your extras that you paid for when buying the disk), those are just the few i know of.

[Zipster]

The way I see it, assuming you want to purchase a game that is only available through Steam, if the whole Steam system works for you then you'll buy game. I've seen a lot of technical arguments against Steam (no internet, too much HDD space, etc.), but no one has made any objections based on principal (and excluding paranoia, no offense to the above poster ). The point is that I can understand technical restrictions, but I'm having a lot harder time believing there are many of us out there (including myself) who would refrain from buying a game we want to play based on principal. Unless of course the developers are kitten killers or something...

Or someone can prove me wrong, I'm just throwing the idea out there.

[garethherbert]

no offence taken

[CBJ]

errm LAN only means you have networking availability, and if the wireless is set up wrong even that may not connect to the internet (something to do with the way the network is set and wirless saying it can either access the internet or access the other computers on the network not both, mate sets up networks i dont lol)

I'm well aware what LAN means. However, if you have an internet connection at all (which you will need to have to download patches) then you will almost certainly have a means to connect a PC to it. This is increasingly a LAN-based solution such as a router since many people have multiple devices that want to connect to the internet. Where they don't have multiple devices, they don't also have an issue because they will already have a modem. I was making the point that the argument put forward by Paranoid66 about extra cost was spurious.

Yes i am online, i have an ethernet based connection, but i like to be offline for games, and i dont like the fact some third party is telling me how to run my computer, while its making my system unstable.

It is a sad fact that the most common cause of a system becoming unstable is user error, just like the end user is also by far the biggest security risk on a PC. We may not like losing control of our PCs, but companies are going to find it increasingly impossible to provide support if we keep on messing up our ever-more complicated systems.

Yes, I'm deliberately playing devil's advocate here. I don't have any particular attachment to Steam, in fact I've never used it. I'm simply pointing out that people seem to be objecting to it on the basis of grounds that will hold little or no water in a couple of years time.

[Paranoid66]

Yes, I'm deliberately playing devil's advocate here. I don't have any particular attachment to Steam, in fact I've never used it. I'm simply pointing out that people seem to be objecting to it on the basis of grounds that will hold little or no water in a couple of years time.

In a way I agree because this is the way computing, gaming and the internet is going fostered by big business. However sometimes it is good to put up as stiff a resistance as possible even if you know you are likely to be - steam rollered - so to speak! Otherwise what is the point of all those heroic last stands. I am an idealist myself it - helps to keep me sane if a little paranoid.

[bob hope]

i am not paranoid about it i just think that its all just requireing more than should be asked, ive given them thier money, let me have my game without having to pay £xx.xx per month to play the darn thing.

i am also sure that if you dont realise about the stats thing that you are quite happily letting someone profile you and your gaming (this is the paraoid bit and thats why i didnt mention it )

This was made as a just in case theyre thinking about it sort of thing, and if theyre thinking about it it might be because theyre thinking about the future and the constant requests for planetary landins and running about with a gun, this scares me into the fact they might think about using the source engine for that part of the game, which with its abysmally small levels etc would personally i think be a mistake.

there 2 points of paranoia i hadnt mentioned, whereas my thoughts had mainly been around the fact some people dont have nor want internet, and also the fact that on my system Steam liked to take up a lot more space than it was advertising it was doing in its file sizes. Its a personal dislike through experience, maybe if its bought and installed from the internet it all behaves but if you install from the disk it doesnt recognise that installation, if thats so i laugh at steam for its stupidity.

[CBJ]

i am also sure that if you dont realise about the stats thing that you are quite happily letting someone profile you and your gaming (this is the paraoid bit and thats why i didnt mention it )

How does that differ from being profiled on everything you spend by your credit card company? Got a supermarket reward card? You are being profiled with that too. Got a Nectar card? Then you spending habits are being cross-matched across all the different sectors who have signed up to it. Somehow I think profiling of your gaming habits across a few games isn't the biggest issue in this arena.

[BoronSticks]

The way I see it, assuming you want to purchase a game that is only available through Steam, if the whole Steam system works for you then you'll buy game. I've seen a lot of technical arguments against Steam (no internet, too much HDD space, etc.), but no one has made any objections based on principal (and excluding paranoia, no offense to the above poster ). The point is that I can understand technical restrictions, but I'm having a lot harder time believing there are many of us out there (including myself) who would refrain from buying a game we want to play based on principal. Unless of course the developers are kitten killers or something...

Or someone can prove me wrong, I'm just throwing the idea out there.

Actually, I have a friend who is into Counterstrike, etc. but won't buy Halflife because it only comes on Steam, and he doesn't cite technical reasons.

It is a sad fact that the most common cause of a system becoming unstable is user error, just like the end user is also by far the biggest security risk on a PC. We may not like losing control of our PCs, but companies are going to find it increasingly impossible to provide support if we keep on messing up our ever-more complicated systems.

That is one of the favorite crocks of shiznit of software developers. Everything on my system always works great until some POS software fux up. I never get viruses, for instance, or other TSR surprises. It's only when I deliberately install something that claims it will work one way, but actually works another that problems arise.

[CBJ]

It is not a crock of anything. Ask anyone who has spent time on a helpdesk. For every person who knows what they are doing on their PC (of which you may be one, I don't know) there are 10 who have no idea but still tinker.