Who enjoys the plot?

[Hagallsson]

I also would have liked to be constrained to the plot a little more

That would completely kill the freedom of X, so I would be extremely against it.
In X² I played a couple of plot missions, then I actually played the game for 6months. While waiting for a loop to filter it's injection, I decided to finish the plot.
Your suggestion would prevent that.

I dont mean 100% constrained, but there were a few missions that I feel should have been handled differently.

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For example, when you have to go chase your father through the asteroid, Ban Danna says that he is considered to be working with the Kh'aak, and that the fleet is after him. When you go after him, he says "I cant hold them forever" or something like that. What I'd like to see is there being some sort of penalty for taking too long, like your father being captured for instance.

Granted, this would break the plot, but then it can just be reloaded, or just allow the player to continue playing, at the expense of finishing the plot.

So once again, I'm not supporting a "Once you start the Plot, you have to play it to the end" mentality. I agree that the plot should support you going off and doing your own thing every now and then. Just... not when you're told there is no time to waste IMO.

[Hagallsson]

I agree that the freedom is a great thing, but when a plot mission starts with "We must get there right away" or somesuch and you can take as long as you like, it can kill the immersion.

Ah, once again, someone comes along and says my point better then I can

[Exoleet]

The plot feels like it was nailed on, like the devs were having too much fun making the game deep that they forgot to really add a good plot untill it was almost release time. I mean, seriously, that first level where you're flying through the city... from any other developer that would be unnacceptable, but the rest of the game more than makes up for it, mostly because the plot is optional.

[MJinks]

I enjoyed some parts but the 'mini-quest' segments really annoyed me.

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The mission on the planet surface was too frantic to enjoy, the one inside the Yaki base too tedious and the asteroid one rather pointless. The mission inside the station was quite fun though, if incredibly easy.

Also, I disliked the strictly scripted parts. There was a point where you had to avoid being detected by the Yaki (not inside the asteroids... just before that) or they would send a force of ships against you resulting in instant death, no matter what you were flying. Another part was where you were forced into an M3 in order to fly through through an asteroid after your father. I ignored the warning the first time, my ship started off inside the wall and disintegrated.

The final mission was disappointing, yet again being forced into a ship I didn't like. My initial helpers were wiped out by a Race Response Fleet (rather amusing, obviously not the fault of the plot writers). It was a complete slide show by the end, I was more amused with circumstance than annoyed.

I did like the actual storytelling, I would have loved for it to be more fleshed out. I think it could make a great book. It was only the implementation which let it down. It's hard to constrain players to the limitation of a plot while offering an environment of total freedom and unlimited potential.

It did not sour the game for me, not in the least. I recognise it as a minor and insignificant part of the game.

[Boris_The_Blade]

I loved the plot-because i didn't want to waste money on a station

Easier to do Bala Gi Missions still haven't started those

But the plot was......how to put this, Boring you need to save some stupid Goners who cares, have some excitment like escort a Split Fleet being attacked by pirates or something that would be fun!

Or make these as maps or for the next X game:
Plots for each Race
Split-Try to take over the universe
Teladi-Try to make profitsssss
Boron-Try to be fish, defend their borders from invaders
Argon-Protect the universe
Paranid-Try to collect Nividium or some thing else the three eyed people think will help with some sort of problem.
Khaak-Kill, Kill, Kill
Xenon-Make super weapon, then Kill, Kill, Kill then make more weapons and some more killing.
New race-new plot of whatever the race is like

But this is just my opinion, making more than 1 plot is time consuming and making 1 for each race won't be done so i can only dream.....

Plot good but could be better.

[Mortimer909]

I can enjoy both parts of a game like this but seriously, that are somemany down falls - the least of which is that i constantly found myself losing track of the story in plot. Like a movie where all the actors mumble. I think in this the info was lost in the time it took to write all the comedy between Brendan and Zia(speelLing?) The fact that there were bugs was another prob at least they were for me. I played the mission where you mmust escape the planet at the start of the plot a couple of times for various reasons and sometimes i could see the graphicd other times it was nothing but space and red boxes.

The next time i had any trouble like was ....well.

When you have to chase daddy thru the asteroid, in my game, i was as tho sprite collison could somehow turned itself onn and off at will. I could periodically fly thru the wall of the tunnel and sometimes would not be able to get back in and drive back to the entrance of the tunnel and start again. Other times i would find Julians father half way up the tunnel crashing into the wall and firing upon me. So i would just blow him up. Anyway thats only about 15% of the problems i had with that mission - but still managed to get thru - my brother was amazed.

XanII wrote:

Beginning is great but it planes away towards total Uve Boll like horror flick until the anti-climax in the end. When you are done you feel so totally empty and drained of all will power.

I definitely agree with this. All that jumbled plot line and for what?

1. The area of the plot where your bank account empties leaves all of your traders and patrol routes on strike!

2.

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Wheres the reward? No ships, No cash! Not even the centaur that Ion was in when you finish fighting with him! In fact all i ended with is a static trade network, a bunch of flashing stations on the property list and an Ore Mine that i neither want nor need

3. Seiously, the battle at the end was good and looked good, but i fight battles three times that size every other day in khaak and xenon sectors......I guess there is method in choosing the right time to do the plot. The fact that i achieved a lot before completeing the plot made the it seem ultra-insignificant.

4. The ending. Oh dear.

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This, admittedly, happened to be another point where i lost track of what was happening(therefore had no idea what was going to happen next) and then it just stopped......I got the fireworks bit and the bit about going to the party, but i figured that HELLO!!!!!! we just established a link to Earth! How about we continue to persue this!!!!! I had to check the walkthru the next day just to make sure the plot had actually finished. This combined with reason 2 mad me empty, distant and somewhat dellusional.

Then when all was said and done i checked my account and i was full plus about 10-12 mil from my lovely hard working UT's which made me happy...

I guess the ending makes a good segway for X4's, hopefully more fulfilling, plot

[Constipated_Vigilante]

I took a several month hiatus from X3 after I couldn't find that damn contact at the Trading Station. I downloaded XTM last night and I'm hoping it'll rekindle my interest.

[STL_fpagsc]

The plot in X3 is one of the best plots I've ever seen in games! Maybe missions of the plot are not the best thing but after I finished the plot I was a little sad and couldnt play X3 for several days because it was a little boring and not so interesting as it was with all those good characters.

Now I have a lot of ships and other stuff but I cant use it with Xtended mod (because I need to start a new game to get new 90 sectors )

[Stu Austin]

I liked the plot but it took me a long time to finish it because I got tired of lets take for an example the Drone Mission where a lot of times I got destroyed and had to start all over again at the beginning of the mission. Now if they had it where you could use your salvage insurance to save your game at any time during the missions, it would make life much easier.

[mrbadger]

Having played the X series from day one of the release of the first game I can say definatelly that I think the plot is worthwhile.

The story, thin on the ground though it is, is rather fun, and it gives you a tour of the latest game.

I didn't even realise the X3 plot gives you high argon rep at first, since by the time I finished it I had the status it provides anyway.

[Nyax]

In future iterations of X games (if egosoft decides to make one) I hope they drop plot entirely and focus on other parts of the game (If you can't do it right don't do it at all...)

I am absolutely 100% AGAINST this idea. The plot is an ESSENTIAL part of my enjoyment of X games. It's the thing that for me, gives some kind of point to all the empire building you do. Otherwise you're just doing it for the sake of it which i find uninvolving and unrewarding.

The problems with plots in the x-games as i've said after every single x game so far is that they are not very well implemented. Here's a few suggestions i've thought of to improve this-

1) The plot should not be triggered automatically at any point. The plot should start when the player chooses to start it, Just like in the original privateer when the plot is only triggered when the player chooses to talk to a particular character, or even in X3s own Bala-gi missions.

2) Once the player has chosen to trigger the plot the player must be bound by the plot's own time constraints. Being able to leave the plot for endless game days in the middle of 2 'vital' missions is unrealistic and destroys immersion.

3) That said the plot should have some natural breaks in it, so that if the player does want to take a break from it they can do every so often. The X-wing series's battles and missions approach is a decent loose template for how to go about that.

4) Dispose of ingame cutscenes. This leaves a big part of the plot experience at the mercy of the players particular mchine. All cutscenes should be prerendered to guarantee universal performance levels. You need look no further then the closing cutscene of X3s plot for evidence of this. Of course you also need to make sure they are clear and make sense.

5) The plot should touch on, but not drown in details from the Expanded universe. X3 and Homeworld2s plots both suffered from moments of incoherance because they relied too much on background understanding of what was going off, often beyond what had appeared in other games. Who the hell are the Sohen or the builders of the gates for example. As far as i know this has only been covered before in game novels that most players will not have read.

6) The plot as implemented ingame should always Explain itself and tie up loose ends. I'm sure there's a version of the plot in a word document at Egosoft somewhere that justifies bueatifully why the jumpgate in the final mission goes where it does, but none of that makes it into the game, and as a result it plays like an unexplained mess.

7) Keep it relatively simple. The game structure limits how well plot's can be implemented, so it's a mistake to try and implement stories that are too convoluted. You'll just end up with an incoherant mess if you don't.

[Qwe r`Ty]

Alas, all X-games had average storyline. EGOSOFT, find good scenario-writer, paa-lease. And where sense of humor of yourz? Sorry, but We rememba those rare dumb stupid overjokes with Saya in some missions of X3-plot, that ones waz awful . Ya`ll better take for example, GTA-series or NWN2 or whatsoever...
Still no offences waz meant. That side-quest of Bala Gi mission developers made wonderful, yea . But! Tell Us where We can find that Bala Gi himself? Grrr, We wanna bath in hiz cold-fish-darn-borong-blood!
btw We chose 2nd answer.
Over.

[Syndrome]

@ Nyax: I absolutely agree with everything you've said. You've just made my life easier

I would hate to see an X4 with no plot, but I'd just as much like it's plot to be better in every way Nyax mentioned.

The X story is great and I think we all owe a huge thanks to all the Ego plot 'inventers' such as Bernd and Helge and co.

[Warenwolf]

In future iterations of X games (if egosoft decides to make one) I hope they drop plot entirely and focus on other parts of the game (If you can't do it right don't do it at all...)

I am absolutely 100% AGAINST this idea. The plot is an ESSENTIAL part of my enjoyment of X games. It's the thing that for me, gives some kind of point to all the empire building you do. Otherwise you're just doing it for the sake of it which i find uninvolving and unrewarding.

The problems with plots in the x-games as i've said after every single x game so far is that they are not very well implemented.
(...)

Well, if Egosoft were capable of creating and "telling" a good story (with all suggestions you made) then sure, I too would want them to have a plot in next iteration of X games. I really like games with good plots. I was capable of seeing past difficult combat and various bugs in Gothic series just because the game had a great story. But if Egosoft makes nexr story of same quality as in X3, then please spare me.
And after X2 and X3, I am kind of seeing a trend here. The company makes excellent empire building sim in space but they can not tell good story if their life depended on it... X3's plot was really, really bad.
Perhaps the company should realize their limitations and instead focus on what they do best.

[BugMeister]

There's a plot?

- it's all a plot.. you can't trust anyone - especially the Paranid..

[tuatha]

I like storylines in games. But the X3 story was awful. Unbearably bad. You know you're in trouble when you're introduced to one of the main characters and discover he has a 'joke' name (Ban Dana or whatever it was). Not that I'm saying a game should be deadly serious from start to finish... but really.. Ban Dana?

Then there was the brutal voice-acting and poor translation. I'm not even going to touch the many bugs which made large parts of the storyline unplayable for long periods.

But most of all, I just can't stick the hackneyed universe they created. It's like the compendium of sci-fi clichés, topped off with alien-race designs that make the Daleks look realistic.

It's a shame, because in terms of aesthetics (the systems, the stations and ships not to mention the scope of the game) I think they did a great job. It's just that beyond that they seem to be genuinely lacking in creativity. Maybe bringing in some external consultants or screen-writers would help.

As for the empire building, I found it fiddly, boring and poorly conceived. Maybe with a better interface it would be more palatable, although tbh I'm not someone who's willing to spend large chunks of his time pretending to be a space-tycoon anyway, so in this respect I'll happily admit that I'm biased.

Anyway, I don't mean this to sound like an attack on the developers, I think it's all valid criticism and since these guys are one of the very few companies left making these games I'd like them to continue.

[XanII]

Why does there always have to be a strange aliens doing invasion etc? this i cannot understand. I find it 'cheap' to just create a mystical alien race instead of doing more detailed things. Okay i understand designers dont want to do the 'Tolkien' trick but doing the exact opposite with the mystical thing just bores me. Whenever i read from a game preview that it contains 'mysterious alien' elements i skip the page.

Heres three space game example: X3, Jupiter incident, Freespace who all except freespace fail on the plot. X3 has a plot because it...well... just needs a plot?. Jupiter Incident was far worse. It started greatly with corporation intrigue and ended up with strange alien technology and aliens attempting to destroy earth. Yawn. Freespace nearly failed because it introduced the main alien race whom you did war with and then attempted to sidetrack but then returned back to the main plot and kept the line well. In the end you had an illusion that you knew the enemy well. Same effect happened in Wing Commanders and Tie Fighter games. You get a 'close-and-personal' tie with the world and the opponents. Not very surprising that X3 is best when you do 'loose rpg playing' on it and skip the plot. imagination rocks best sometimes (Elite anyone?)
when official scripts just suck. And im not even talking about expanding having alltogehter different missions. Imagine this: X3 missions where you already know your enemy well and they are not just faceless khaak/yaki flying around in space.

Here IMHO is a good basic rule for ANY plot for any game: do NOT make faceless enemies. they are not mysterious. they simply are not. Just look at the preview pictures of just about ANY of the big hit games out there, they all contain masked enemies or aliens or whatever.

If i would make a plot i would have opponents that you will learn to know even better than your own mom. They may then be just invading aliens if this is what is required to sell the game but please try to explain it to the player why there must be so much fighting. This doesnt mean more and longer cutsceenes. Just plain info available is better than nothing.

[Qwe r`Ty]

tuatha wrote:

`discover he has a 'joke' name (Ban Dana or whatever it was)`

2 tuatha:
Come on, that `man-in-black` Ban Danna guy waz in X-series since X-BTF - the devs had no choice to rename him

Bad plot better than nothing

[tuatha]

2 tuatha:
Come on, that `man-in-black` Ban Danna guy waz in X-series since X-BTF - the devs had no choice to rename him

Yeah, I know. But I really think they should give serious thought to abandoning the X universe and starting over with something a little more mature and original.

Joke names for characters, races plagiarised almost directly from sci-fi shows, the standard 'distinct' races (which invariably means we'll get one race who obsesses over trade, another who obsesses over defence etc)... all these things are relics from the time when developing video games was an amateur sport and playing video games was the preserve of barely literate 14 year olds.

But egosoft aren't bedroom developers anymore, they're professionals, working in an industry that is increasingly being exposed to people who are unlikely to be impressed with the type of 3rd rate fan-fiction that comprises the X universe. They just can't keep churning out this type of mediocrity if they want people to buy their games.

I know there will be many on here who disagree with the above, that's fine. I just think that unless egosoft figure out which way the wind is blowing we might not see many more games from them.

[Qwe r`Ty]

tuatha wrote:

But egosoft aren't bedroom developers anymore, they're professionals, working in an industry that is increasingly being exposed to people who are unlikely to be impressed with the type of 3rd rate fan-fiction that comprises the X universe. They just can't keep churning out this type of mediocrity if they want people to buy their games.

Well We sure many peeps in here won`t say goodbye to X-universe though...hmmm, If the profs create Y-universe We`d like to buy it, yeaa