freelance and tachyon opinions please

Zathos · Post by **Zathos** » Sat, 3. Dec 05, 21:01

I guess it depends on when you started playing games of this type.

If you started with Freelancer then everything else is going to be compared to that benchmark.

I started with Elite on the C64, so that's my benchmark.

Having played, and loved, Starlancer I really looked forward to the release of Freelancer....only to be dissapointed.
But that is just my opinion.

The only thing I would suggest is that more people should try out the older games. There are some real gems out there which still stand up against the latest games.

Arbalest · Post by **Arbalest** » Sat, 3. Dec 05, 22:05

esd wrote:For some reason Freelancer fans take my calling it an arcade game as an insult. It's not, it's just correct categorisation.
Missile Command was an arcade game too, and it kicked serious bottom.

I agree with your basic view of Freelancer, but personally I'd use the less insulting (to fans) term "action game." Wing Commander was an action game also.

X3 is a space trading simulation, with an action game combat system grafted onto it.

vindicator · Post by **vindicator** » Sat, 3. Dec 05, 22:33

x3 is a space trading simulation, with an action game combat system grafted onto it.

mmmm. no x3 is a bugged trading simulation, with a frusterating at best combat system graften in as a side note. im sorry. it does have lots of potential, but its bugged to the point of no fun.

esd · Post by **esd** » Sat, 3. Dec 05, 22:58

vindicator wrote:mmmm. no x3 is a bugged trading simulation, with a frusterating at best combat system graften in as a side note. im sorry. it does have lots of potential, but its bugged to the point of no fun.

Bugs or no bugs does not a genre make.

mad_axeman · Post by **mad_axeman** » Sat, 3. Dec 05, 22:59

Freelancer: It was OK during the story. After that it got a bit repetiive and dull with nothing new do do.

Tachyon: Don't think I ever finished it. I think I got bored with it.

Iwar2: Great game. A wide variety of missions, 'proper' pirating. But again, not really anything to do outside of the plot.

X universe games: plyed them all so far (except X3; am waiting until it's a bit more stable before splashing out), but have ben playing X2 since ealry 2004. Lots to do (although X2 (and also X3 by the sound of it) weren't as stable/reliable/bug-free as the other 3 games at release).

shasla5 · Post by **shasla5** » Sat, 3. Dec 05, 23:12

esd wrote:Don't forget 6) X has a Y axis.

For some reason Freelancer fans take my calling it an arcade game as an insult. It's not, it's just correct categorisation.
Missile Command was an arcade game too, and it kicked serious bottom.

In this sensitive issue, we prefer "Space RPG-Lite".

James_2k · Post by **James_2k** » Sat, 3. Dec 05, 23:16

Plus, arcade games are derived from games which you played in the arcade (remember those things? £2 a go on Jurassic park!) thus they have no story (practically)

so i would say its less arcade for the story. but it even has trading and even though its basic, its still far more than an actual arcade game has.

so in no way would i call it arcade to be honest. i may go so far as action/adventure

Lise · Post by **Lise** » Sat, 3. Dec 05, 23:22

esd wrote: X³'s combat is above and beyond that of X², and is a little more Freespace-y. Especially as there's no cockpits. It's certainly almost as fast and furious as Freespace when you're in something M4 class or smaller.

The only thing that sucked about the Freespaces was that there were no cockpits, -- at least the HUD was fantastic in order to compensate, you certainly can't say that about X3's...

X3 with galaxy613's cockpit mod *is* pretty enjoyable however...

and X3 really drops the ball in the capship department. Freespace2's capships were absolutely terrifying, X3's put on a bad show until their last little puff - the flabbergastingly ridiculously miniscule fighter-size explosion that marks their end.

Freespace2 was furious in many ways, but remember how nearby capship explosions could tear your little fighter to pieces? That kind of fury is the stuff of legends - X3 simply can't compete.

The thrill of outrunning a dying warship's shockwave has never been replicated.

AB14 · Post by **AB14** » Sat, 3. Dec 05, 23:35

Don't forget about Xwing and Tiefighter- they rocked! From mission design to managing your ships energy systems, dogfighting around Star Destroyers, the thrill of piloting a ship that could blow up after a few hits let alone a collision!

Arbalest · Post by **Arbalest** » Sat, 3. Dec 05, 23:44

Lise wrote:and X3 really drops the ball in the capship department. Freespace2's capships were absolutely terrifying, X3's put on a bad show until their last little puff - the flabbergastingly ridiculously miniscule fighter-size explosion that marks their end.

Freespace2 was furious in many ways, but remember how nearby capship explosions could tear your little fighter to pieces? That kind of fury is the stuff of legends - X3 simply can't compete.

The thrill of outrunning a dying warship's shockwave has never been replicated.

Yeah, I still think I-War2 came closest to the physical world I enjoy space combat in, but Freespace2 definitely got the scale and power of the "capital ship" concept right. Those things WERE terrifying, and their deaths were spectacular.

I like the way the cap ship exteriors look in X3, but they just don't feel right. They're too much like scaled-up fighters, and they don't have the battery of special weapons you'd expect a cap ship to have. Something needs to be done about those wimpy puffball explosions too.

Lise · Post by **Lise** » Sun, 4. Dec 05, 00:26

AB14 wrote:Don't forget about Xwing and Tiefighter- they rocked! From mission design to managing your ships energy systems, dogfighting around Star Destroyers, the thrill of piloting a ship that could blow up after a few hits let alone a collision!

That is the truth, - of the flight-model paradigm X3 is using, the star wars sims are the perfect example of how to get it feelin right.

Those ships were a joy to fly - 1993, my first space-sim - xwing on a 3.5 disk. Ch-flightstick in hand -- awesome.
i was one happy 5th grader.

And in tie-fighter...darth vader as your wingman in one of the end-game missions...like...totally...radical period

pepperg · Post by **pepperg** » Sun, 4. Dec 05, 00:55

iwar2 and freespace2 are still unmatched (well, how can i know i guess, since i haven't played a lot of the other ones mentioned here) in terms of quality. i hope some developer group gives us a proper successor in terms of quality.

i do prioritize the combat the and flight sim aspect of any space sim i consider, hence deciding to skip freelancer, but trading and builiding is interesting to me too. basically though, as a fan of falcon4 and jane's f-18, i have to feel as if i am "there" cockpit/ship wise, which makes freelancer's approach and x3's inexplicably bad choice of a windows os approach (well, i guess the thought of microsoft powering spaceships isn't that absurd, given their market dominance) a real letdown for me.

so i guess that, having already completed freespace2 and iwar2, there basically isn't another combat/trade based sim of comparable quality? that's a bummer. i will try to enjoy x2, and hopefully i won't find the combat as poorly implemented as many have indicated.

as the other real players around in the space sim genre, it's a shame that egosoft (or whoever the developers are) can't JUST GET IT RIGHT. but isn't that what happens when the competition ain't there?

Leroy The Badger · Post by **Leroy The Badger** » Sun, 4. Dec 05, 01:06

Nothing beats Elite! (Although the X series is the next best thing imho)

C777 · Post by **C777** » Sun, 4. Dec 05, 06:56

Freelancer was sort of a let down for me. After you go through the missions, you could explore the universe. Although the sectors are nicely done, there weren't that many of them compared to the X series.

Tachyon was fun, but after you did the storylines from Galspan and Bora, there wasn't that much more to do except do the multiplayer. Now THAT was fun.

Wing Commander was the series that got me into gaming.(yeah yeah, to some that makes me a n00b, so what

) It's too bad that Origin killed it.

Freespace and Freespace 2--loved them both although I don't play them anymore. Graphics are dated, but man, PXO got combat done right in that game.

X-Wing/Tie-Fighter series, now those were fun. Don't play them anymore either.

Now, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Terminus. It came out in 2000. It had three or four different factions you could play, and each had their own storylines. I never did play the pirates. I still don't know who the Lidless Eye were.

Now, my dream game would be a combination of Master of Orion 2/Rebellion and Freespace 2/Wing Commander. You first start in the MOO turn based game where you are building your empire. Then, if there is any combat, you'd have the option of playing the battle out in FreeSpace 2 style combat. Now *that* would be too fun. No trading, but man, it would make a great strategy/shooter game.

Oh well, I guess the best thing I can do is dream.

Tenlar Scarflame · Post by **Tenlar Scarflame** » Sun, 4. Dec 05, 07:08

How about Starlancer? I dunno about 'yall but I just LOVED the look of Starlancer, and aside from ear-jarringly bad voiceovers it really put you pretty firmly in the pilot seat. Yeah sure it was ONLY mission based pretty much, but it had a LOT of missions and still keeps me interested now. And the graphics, while not high-poly, were just beautiful to watch. I just don't think X or even Freelancer could recreate the feeling right.

Now Freelancer is an entirely different bird. Freelancer = make money and blow stuff up. Starlancer = defeat the Coalition and be a proud and skillful pilot.

X = make money, blow stuff up if you can / feel like it. Proud and skillful pilot, not so much there. That's what I think X needs, more DRIVE to be something. How about enlisting in your race's military and taking group-effort missions with them (where your allies actually help and can communicate with you?), or more severe and conscience-hitting repercussions for doing bad things. THAT would get me pumped more than just monetary incentives and the allure of pretty fireballs.

Not dissing pretty fireballs though.

[/rant]

rohbshop · Post by **rohbshop** » Sun, 4. Dec 05, 12:20

I agree people are selling Freelancer short. Imo it was a great game, I havent played a space game yet with a better immersion factor. All the radio docking talk, random inspections, etc. really made the area around you seem alive.

As for combat being easy, I think its funny that almost every example is from people who got the best ships and guns then call it easy. Its not as easy if you dont know what to buy and dont read every guide to min max everything to make it easy. Freelancer has the most intense combat in any space game I've played. I'm not talking this lame point and click stuff that most space sims are, I'm talking dogfights in space where your going to have people on your tail, put your brakes on then be on their tail trying to get them in your cursor, then your both cutting left and right, it just feels more like a dogfight in a ship.

Also the graphics were great. I'm running X3 right now on a brand new computer because my old one couldnt run it playable with its Ti500 video card. Even then my brand new $2000 computer with 7800GT cant even run X3 without it being a bit choppy also. I read all this hype about X3's graphics, I start playing it and I swear the visuals arent better than Freelancers, definitely overexxagerated. I'm amazed that Freelancer was so smooth on my old computer from about 3 years ago and its visuals are arguably better than X3's.

One last thing is mouse and keyboard for Freelancer was simple, if you ever played any PC fps before it should've been natural. I think the only ones that could've possibly had a problem with the controls probably have a problem with PC controls altogether.

I LOVED Freelancer, my biggest complaint however was it is pretty shallow after you've played it long enough. The trading, combat, and general scope of how much you can accomplish is very limited for this type of game. I like being able to accumulate or build on a mass scale in open ended games, and Freelancer just limits you because it doesnt have the depth it could. I wish they did an expansion to Freelancer since it could've turned space games more mainstream, as of now their all niche, and carried by a repetetive sim formula that the purists try to preach as a must for all space games

The mods may offer different skins and content to a degree, I think an expansion could've offered a better storyline, more unique anamolies to the universe, scripts, etc. The mods for Freelancer just dont give it the depth I wish and think it could have.

If you've never played Freelancer i'd strongly reccomend it.

esd · Post by **esd** » Sun, 4. Dec 05, 12:36

Its not as easy if you dont know what to buy and dont read every guide to min max everything to make it easy

Gotta disagree with you there. I had no idea what I was doing when I first played it, and I'm not the type to go consulting resources until I've finished a game at least once.

I breezed through it. I didn't even keep any special weapons that I found.. just flogged 'em.

Post by **Cycrow** » Sun, 4. Dec 05, 13:37

yeah me too, i didn't bother with any guides or anything for freelancer, and i found it pretty easy
i hardly needed to reload either

Chips · Post by **Chips** » Sun, 4. Dec 05, 14:24

esd wrote:
Its not as easy if you dont know what to buy and dont read every guide to min max everything to make it easy
Gotta disagree with you there. I had no idea what I was doing when I first played it, and I'm not the type to go consulting resources until I've finished a game at least once.

I breezed through it. I didn't even keep any special weapons that I found.. just flogged 'em.

They made a space sim that was to appeal to a mass audience, something that X series does not simply do. The mouse control for a space sim was reviewed as fantastic, negating the need for a joystick, which really meant anyone could figure it out in 2 minutes flat - not just flight sim fans!
It also meant that you can get in your ship, go outside, and start shooting - and be able to survive. If you did this in Rheinland of course, you would have died if you didn't have a better ship/weapons. The difficulty of the game was "concentric" in the system layout - which is something the X series doesn't do. As you developed your skills, you would find more and more challengine opponents. It was simply constructed in the form to allow players to progress without killing them and disheartening them too much. The game was made with this in mind. To simply make it more challenging, give the NPC's proper shields (that regenerate) - and you will find it a marked improvement immediately. After that, mods can change their behaviour drastically, making them completely waste your butt regardless (mods are like scripts for X series - simple little things that can have enormous impacts).

FL is alot faster, and easier to enjoy - cleverly pitched at the market to not only cater for space sim fans, but also regular gamers alike. It has it's downsides, just like the X series has it's downsides - for a start though, they target different markets (although there is an overlap obviously!). Simply put, you cannot construct or own things in FL (as in multiple ships/stations) - if you could, and allowing for mods to increase the difficulty of the game - then it would be near perfect. It isn't though, and never will be - just like the X series will never be perfect for many either!

Yet again though, I will call into question the constant "it doesn't use the Y axis" comments. Yes, it does use the Y axis, the game is 3d. They haven't positioned things on the Y axis to simplify the gameplay, and to ensure it doesn't confuse the players.

Funnily enough, I note that the X series only makes token gestures at the axis as well - you may see things a few K's up or down, but they don't serve any functionality apart from ensuring things aren't on an identical level. You can move things in FL up and down if you like, it just serves no purpose apart from perhaps making it "look good".

Zathos · Post by **Zathos** » Sun, 4. Dec 05, 15:02

Chips wrote: The mouse control for a space sim was reviewed as fantastic, negating the need for a joystick, which really meant anyone could figure it out in 2 minutes flat - not just flight sim fans!

I never figured it out, kept crashing into things and the dogfighting was grim.
It did get a bit better once I found the first person view....but if memory serves you had to keep the key pressed

Guess I'm just too old to learn new tricks

egosoft.com

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freelance and tachyon opinions please