Steam posts removed from DiD thread

[David Howland]

Well I have never liked the steam concept but because Egosoft are denying RB to anyone unwilling to entertain steam putting their malware on our nice new computers, I am reading any threads on Steam!
Now I think DID is idiocy anyway but reading these steam problems, the idea of buying RB is scaring me ########!
Then there is that techno-whatsit fella in the steam for RB thread over in RB forum, advocating Steam. He actually says stupid stuff like; anyone running steam with perfectly good security software who gets attacked by hackers or virus has been CARELESS. Of course he will not admit it has anything to do with running Steams malware opening up holes in any security system a mile wide.
Just how do ES think they can sell RB when they have advocates on forum accusing perfectly sensible intelligent players of X, who probably never allowed a hacker on their system before they put Steam on it, of being CARELESS!
Well the Moderators might be okay with such an insulting attitude but that is one Steam thread I have had to stop reading!

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

Well I have never liked the steam concept but because Egosoft are denying RB to anyone unwilling to entertain steam putting their malware on our nice new computers, I am reading any threads on Steam!
Now I think DID is idiocy anyway but reading these steam problems, the idea of buying RB is scaring me ########!
Then there is that techno-whatsit fella in the steam for RB thread over in RB forum, advocating Steam. He actually says stupid stuff like; anyone running steam with perfectly good security software who gets attacked by hackers or virus has been CARELESS. Of course he will not admit it has anything to do with running Steams malware opening up holes in any security system a mile wide.
Just how do ES think they can sell RB when they have advocates on forum accusing perfectly sensible intelligent players of X, who probably never allowed a hacker on their system before they put Steam on it, of being CARELESS

If you are connected to the internet then your machine is at tangible risk of being hacked. It is no more or less at risk of being hacked because you have Steam installed on your machine than if you have Skype, IRC, MSN Messenger, Teamspeak, Chrome, RSS feeder or any other internet application you care to think of.

The "techno-whatsit fella" you mentioned is quite correct that most instances of machines being hacked are down to carelessness on the part of the operator, be it down to running out of date anti-viral/security software, downloading software from, let's charitably say, "questionable" sources, clicking links on random websites, giving out personal information in phishing emails and all those other things people get up to.

It's not of course always down to the user, you can also suffer from visiting trusted websites that are externally compromised. There's nothing for example that says Egosoft won't get hacked and some malware installed on their server that will bite you next time you login to post on the forum here... and yet you don't seem to consider that risk enough to put you off.

A lot of the complaints about Steam seem to come from people who don't appear to understand it. Steam is a relatively non-intrusive DRM system compared to others I could mention, it works well, it avoids the issue of having multiple DRM systems octopussing their way across your machine.

In terms of relation to Egosoft you should stop to consider the position Egosoft are in. They occupy a fairly niche market. I'm fairly certain the decision to make the X series available via Steam brought it to the attention of a vast audience that would otherwise be completely unaware it even existed and just going by the numbers of new faces on the forum I'd be very surprised if it hasn't proven to be a very favourable business venture for them.

You complain about Rebirth being on Steam, but take a moment to consider that fully. If it's contributed to the success of Egosoft as a company then it also what's allowed them to fund Rebirth in the first place.

[frymaster]

Of course he will not admit it has anything to do with running Steams malware opening up holes in any security system a mile wide.

without getting into a discussion on what the word "malware" does and doesn't mean, please link me to a description of how steam "opens up holes in any security system" because this is news to me

[BDK]

A lot of the complaints about Steam seem to come from people who don't appear to understand it. Steam is a relatively non-intrusive DRM system compared to others I could mention, it works well, it avoids the issue of having multiple DRM systems octopussing their way across your machine.

I can resell my games that run other DRM. Not so with Steam.
Other DRM does not require a client to run at all times. Not so with Steam.
Other DRM does not require Internet (some do). Not so with Steam.

The security hole thingy is bull I'll give ya that.
Saying Steam is non-intrusive must be a joke because it's as intrusive as it gets. Anyway, way off topic.

[CBJ]

Anyway, way off topic.

Yes, way of topic for this thread. One thread is enough for the general Steam debate, please.

[Darkhymn]

Steam is a two edged sword. It's not malware, and it's not significantly less secure than any other software. In fact, if you're running any version of internet explorer, congratulations, Steam is a fortress by comparison.

On the plus side of steam, you have access to a lot of games that are out of physical circulation, permanently. I have never seen a disc copy of any X game anywhere. Ever. Outside of purchasing a disc offline (which actually isn't easy as it's fairly uncommon) steam is by far the most accessible way to get gems like these. In fact, were it not for steam, I would have never discovered X3:R. That searchable webstore results in a lot of publicity for small developers that would otherwise never be visible.

From a player perspective, you gain basically unlimited access to a digital copy of each of your steam-registered games from anywhere that you have an internet connection, as well as automatic updates and the like. These are some pretty obvious benefits.

On the downside, Steam is historically terrible software. Offline mode is difficult to use (steam has always hated this "feature"), the system has been notoriously unstable, and some publishers *cough* enjoy pushing additional DRM requirements on top of already having Steam. I won't go into the fact that it doesn't work as DRM, as odds are we all already know that DRM has never worked.

As for hacking... First of all, actual hackers are unlikely to bother with your computer directly. You have nothing they want. More probably, you'll contract a virus, which almost 100% of the time is your own fault. If you can't handle using the internet without getting a virus, pay $50 for software to protect you from them. If you do your research and get the right antivirus software, you can literally (figuratively ^_^) wade in virus soup all day long and never have an issue.

Now don't get me wrong, I have hated steam since valve started forcing it on me, and I'm not going to start liking it until it starts actually working, but the fact is X games being on Steam is a good business decision, and frankly extremely convenient for the player, when you consider how unavailable these games really are. Even going exclusively steam is not a bad business decision, though I'm against it. Disc versions of a game are much, much easier to pirate. Eliminate the disc, and you've eliminated that avenue of attack for pirates.

This thread should probably be locked as now that steam has come up, the topic probably will remain... steam.

[CBJ]

This thread should probably be locked as now that steam has come up, the topic probably will remain... steam.

No thanks. I'm going to split out the Steam discussion and lock it, partly because the subject has yet again drifted into copy protection territory, and partly because we have more that enough discussion of Steam in the main Steam thread without people hijacking other threads.