The issue of PK in X Online

[b-b-q]

Does anyone know how the issue of player killing will be handled in the online version of X? Watching these threads about how "if you mess with my Nova I'll pulverize you with my Centaur" give me a bad DiabloII deja vu. While I understand a certain amount of PvP is unavoidable, it does make me nervous to think that most of our players might be younger teens. Not to make any unfair generalized statements about any particular group, I had some pretty horrid experiences with younger players in other online games like DiabloII (if you have played it, you know the stuff I'm talking about : scams, cheats, hacks, thievery, etc).

I'm curious as to know what everyone think.

[TerrorTrooper]

hopefully, in a multi player X-universe, a good way to get round this would be say.

most sectors, pvp is not possible, and perhaps, certain sectors that PVP is enabled (probably designed specificly for PVP, something like loomankstrats legacy sector.

[JackScratch]

I'm not a PK sort of player in general so I hope it's either limited to certain servers or certain sectors on the same server so all PvP is at the player's discretion.

[BobVila]

"if you mess with my Nova I'll pulverize you with my Centaur"

I believe that you misquoted me. Also, I stated that I would only use force to protect my property and pilots (I like to think that my ships have crew, it just seems like such a lonely universe otherwise) if it was endangered by irresponsible pilots who thought that it was acceptable to attack other players property and kill or enslave sentient beings (my aforementioned pilots). Although I do not enjoy killing, I will, if those who have no ethics or morals force my hand. I do not intend to launch preemptive strikes, no matter what the circumstances happen to be. Please, before accusing me of being a player killer consult me first. Thank you.

[Spero]

I had some pretty horrid experiences with younger players in other online games like DiabloII (if you have played it, you know the stuff I'm talking about : scams, cheats, hacks, thievery, etc).

I really, really do resent that comment.

Nothing personal, but I'm 17 and I am a pretty mature gamer, specifically online where 'gaming etticate' is far and few between and gamers like me don't want to be persecuted just for having the word 'teen' in our age.

Seriously, it's almost racism.

[Spero]

Anyway, to deal with your main issue, if there are sectors with no PvP what's stopping 5,000 people cramming 25 factories each and crushing everybody's framerate?

I propose that you are issued with a sector to call your own when you sign up, which is the only place you can build your factories. People can enter your sector, however none of your ships are allowed to be attacked without serious punishments within Argon Federation terratory, Royal Boron terratory etc.

This would allow people to become pirates and renegades, but people with powerful ships (who henceforth would have a strong economy) would be hit very hard by things such as prohibited docking rights, trade ships attacked on sight, all the way up to defencive fleet movements against you.

[moggy2]

I guess I'm just a purist here, but I don't like the idea of artificially limiting what the player can kill and where. I'd much rather see the game severely punish the player for the action rather than forbid the action all together.

The X-Universe is much more about the acquisition of property, and vunerable property at that, than any other online game I can think of. From that property comes the wealth and power, and if that's under threat from the game as well as other players in X-online then I can see pking a lot less of a problem than in any other game.

Something like in lawless sectors anything goes, but you destroy inocent vessels in say argon teritory, the Argon don't just slap you on the wrists but confiscate or otherwise destroy your property in Argon teritory

[Spero]

I guess I'm just a purist here, but I don't like the idea of artificially limiting what the player can kill and where. I'd much rather see the game severely punish the player for the action rather than forbid the action all together.

The X-Universe is much more about the acquisition of property, and vunerable property at that, than any other online game I can think of. From that property comes the wealth and power, and if that's under threat from the game as well as other players in X-online then I can see pking a lot less of a problem than in any other game.

Something like in lawless sectors anything goes, but you destroy inocent vessels in say argon teritory, the Argon don't just slap you on the wrists but confiscate or otherwise destroy your property in Argon teritory

My point exactly! Good, somebody agrees!

[Kitch]

Just have a log to record which of your assets were attacked and by whom... then moderators and players can keep tabs on whos killing what and take appropriate action as required.

For folk who do a lot of pk-ing, they can be questioned as to their actions and in extreme cases, ejected from servers.

People who do the odd raid will be accountable as they will have to protect themselves and assets from revenge and reprisals.

Also, the NPC races would obviously take a dim view of such an abject pirate...

[JackScratch]

Anyway, to deal with your main issue, if there are sectors with no PvP what's stopping 5,000 people cramming 25 factories each and crushing everybody's framerate?

I think it's an incredibly safe bet that regardless of how PvP is handled each player won't be owning the amount of factories they own in X2. It would just be too unmanagable. I'll bet it will be more on the order of one factory per player with alot more detail involved in the running of it.

[Whitepaw]

Anyway they handle it, there will be griefing I think, it seems like there's more and more bad apples out there. Kind of why I've gotten out of the whole MMO thing.

I think player bounties on pirate types would be interesting tho..

[b-b-q]

Unfortunately based on my experience with other online games, there will always be predators out there. There will always be immature players who gain satisfaction by preying on others. They'll explain such as being 'part of the game' and that if you don't like pking go play single player.

To BobVila, my statement wasn't directly referring to you I am sorry if that was how it came across. I am sure MOST people who attack/counterattack another players all think that they are only defending themselves or are provoked. The same situation happens in real life between countries. I was not referring to 'dueling', as in two nova's squaring off and fighting, than predatory pking, as in some kid getting their jollies by parking outside my factory with an Osprey blowing up every freighter.

I want to know if Egosoft will protect the players who wish to participate in an online game without having to deal with those who think that others must put up with pk'ing because it is part of their games.

[moggy2]

If a player is just out for a quick blast, then having half the Argon fleet bearing down on them everytime they come anywhere near argon teritory in the future would give those players the jollies the player wants all the time, without having to prey on the innocent. Of course that player would never be able to play properly again.

[b-b-q]

I had some pretty horrid experiences with younger players in other online games like DiabloII (if you have played it, you know the stuff I'm talking about : scams, cheats, hacks, thievery, etc).

I really, really do resent that comment.

Nothing personal, but I'm 17 and I am a pretty mature gamer, specifically online where 'gaming etticate' is far and few between and gamers like me don't want to be persecuted just for having the word 'teen' in our age.

Seriously, it's almost racism.

To Iatedeath, I took some care to mention in my original post that I did not want to make any unfair generalized statement about that. I simply stated my personal experience with Diablo2, and sadly enough it was terrible. I am sure you are a fair and reasonable player, so my statement about my own experience is not to be taken personally.

There are studies on the web done about online etiquette, pk'ing etc. while examing the age of the players. If you are interested you may want to surf a bit to check them out.

And people often mistake statements that they really dislike as 'racism'. A statement about "teenagers tend to be the people who get acnes" is neither racist nor biased against that particular group. If one takes the time to do a bit of research online, many studies talk about how a certain gender group and age group tend to be the one who do the most pk'ing. Again, it is a statistically factual statement, not 'racist'. Peace man.

[giskard]

No Trader likes player killers but combat freaks love it. Limited it or not limited it will be a difficult choice for Egosoft. However there are some considerations.

1) Existing rank and race relationship features would probably work as a limiting factor.

2) Players who own factories where ship upgrades can be brought should be allowed to choose who they sell too. So I pitty the poor fool who shoots the wrong guy

3) Anybody with an empire could probably scrape up enough support for a nice man hunt if he wished. Or atleast put a bounty on the guys head.

Giskard

[Ravenlord]

i dont see how stopping combat between playes would help an online game because if you cant interact with the other players or engage in combat with them then why play online. obviosy there are people who will take player killing to far such as people who are established and powerfull in the online universe who spend their time masacering innocent noobies and they should be should be banned but rivalry betwwen two players who have cometing factories is perfectly reasonable.
also has anyone else considerd the possobilitys for armed robery ? and capturing player ships. imagine crusing up behing a ts in an M6 and telling the player to get out or die ? This could be developd into an intresting aspect however if mishandled could be disasterous. for instance someone buys a carier and has to take it sto another secot to equip but before they can someone with a M6 ambushes them and demands they hand it over ?

[JackScratch]

It's not about stopping combat between players. It's about making sure participation is willing for both sides. Lets face it, griefing is way too prevailent in every online game that allows PvP. Policing the players who are abusive usually ends up too little too late. Better to wire it in from the beginning.

If it's not willing particpation in PvP you are basically forcing your playstyle on every player. If I want to be an intergalactic trader and ignore the combat aspects entirely, that should be a perfectly valid way to play.

If PvP is limited to certain sectors, everyone wins. Players who like risk and the challenge of going toe to toe with other players can set up shop there. And they are guaranteed a good challenge. Players who don't will have to be smart enough not to start trading through those zones.

It's not unlike how Presidents End works in X2. Players who like risk aren't afraid to set up trade routes through that sector. Players who don't can choose to limit their jumps to stay clear.

[b-b-q]

Here is a simple solution :

When you first create your online account, you choose whether you wish to participate in PvP.

If you answer "Yes", then you can attack other players, but it also means your ships can be attacked by others.

If you answer "No", then you cannot be attacked by PvP, but you cannot attack/damage others.

This will take care of most of the problems, and the rest will be dealt with by the game moderators, if they exist.

[axetogrind]

How about adding bountys to the players who go on the rampage . They will then show up in BBS.
If someone went on the rampage how long would they last?. Or else create a police force run by handpick users who would go nuclear on your ass if you go nuts.

[b-b-q]

How about adding bountys to the players who go on the rampage . They will then show up in BBS.
If someone went on the rampage how long would they last?. Or else create a police force run by handpick users who would go nuclear on your ass if you go nuts.

Bounties can be viewed as 'fame' and it would just encourage pkers to brag about how much they are worth. The fix for pk can't be view as a reward or a point of pride.