Burianek's Laser / Economy Rebalance v1.0 *Update*

The place to discuss scripting and game modifications for X²: The Threat.

Moderators: Moderators for English X Forum, Scripting / Modding Moderators

happykoala
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun, 11. Apr 04, 15:06
x2

Post by happykoala » Wed, 25. Aug 04, 16:41

Burianek wrote:
happykoala wrote: 2 BPSG took 2min 20sec of constant shooting to kill it.
Hmmmmm.... are you sure you're at the correct range? You know there's a "sweet spot" in terms of the correct range to target when you fire a PSG. If you're too close you'll do very little damage. I tested the balance in much the same way as you describe, and while I agree with your findings with the AHEPT (I used a Nova as target and it took roughly 65 sec of constant firing to kill) I found that BPSGs actually killed the Nova in roughly the same amount of time. Huh. If your range is right, I'm not sure what the issue is. (by the way, if you're planning on continuing to test, and please do, I love the feedback! :D you'll find that just holding the trigger button down kills the target in almost exactly the same time as letting them recharge and then refiring, the reason being that once you deplete your original energy, you're limited to damaging the target at the rate your energy will recharge whether you save it up and then fire, or not)

Because the mass driver neglects shields, you can switch targets back and forth and never have to worry about the shields recharging ruining your 'progress' in destroying the ship. This makes the mass driver more versatile. Plus, it fires faster so it's easier to hit the target. Therefore, damage is decreased to balance out these two positives.

Love the feedback and discussion! :D Keep it up. I have no problem changing the mod if you can convince me ..... ;)
Range I did the test for BPSG was 1km as stated above. Did you use a Perseus? It has 1 more gun and double the power of an Orionco. The PSG stored energy does more damage than AHEPT, it states losing once energy runs out, and Nova has 37% hull of Demeter. So in almost all fighter battles the PSG loses out. Too bad you can't make it even with small and big objects.

Yes I know about the recharge rate thingy. I did the recharge test first but decided to count the seconds and put both results.

As for mass driver, I concentrate on 1 target at a time. I'm guessing most people do that.

With the 10k i saved on mass ammo I could have bought 5 dragonflies/ 10 wasp etc and spam some other craft when its back is to me while I recharge. Thats around 50k damage if all hit and still the BHEPT does more damage than mass driver. Of course missiles don't work well if there are turrets. With the mass driver you have to take time to replenish ammo, not to mention the space needed.

1 ammo = 4000> damage or $1 = 3> hull damage.
Compared to missiles $1 = 5> damage + free laser damage.

Using the mass driver is like throwing money into space, I like to get my money worth. Of course if you are rich it doesn't matter.

How many people actually use the mass driver because its better than BHEPT? I will take it if I'm flying a Buster against a capital ship and I have lots of money to throw at it cos thats what its good at for the moment, for m4s with lots of money to throw at capital ships(maybe a Mako with ID can do better though). :P

One more thing, only half of the M3s has as much shield as a Demeter but less than half its hull. But then once their shields are down, a 2k dragonfly will cripple it while we still need around 3k+ to kill it with Mass Driver.
Last edited by happykoala on Wed, 25. Aug 04, 19:11, edited 1 time in total.

brohawk
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat, 24. Apr 04, 23:04
x3

Post by brohawk » Wed, 25. Aug 04, 18:04

Personally I like the PSGs where they are at because I get more captures while dogfighting a bunch of Khaak M5s, not that there is much money in it really but I feel better about making them fear for their pitiful lives.

I don't use the mass driver so I can't comment on that.

User avatar
Burianek
Posts: 2981
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 03, 03:29
x3tc

Post by Burianek » Wed, 25. Aug 04, 19:03

happykoala wrote: As for mass driver, I concentrate on 1 target at a time. I'm guessing most people do that.

How many people actually use the mass driver because its better than BHEPT?
I think you may be surprised at the number of people who might disagree with both of those statements ;)
but to each his own :D
"Nature's first green is gold" . . . stay golden.

User avatar
Burianek
Posts: 2981
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 03, 03:29
x3tc

Post by Burianek » Wed, 25. Aug 04, 19:05

happykoala wrote: Range I did the test for BPSG was 1km as stated above.
Sorry :oops: I missed that the first time I read it.
I'll retest the PSGs when I get a chance.
Might be a while though, there are bigger things on my plate at the moment :D
"Nature's first green is gold" . . . stay golden.

happykoala
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun, 11. Apr 04, 15:06
x2

Post by happykoala » Wed, 25. Aug 04, 20:08

Alternatively, you can make ammo cheaper. It will disrupt the economy... unless....

1 ammo = 200 shots right? I wonder if it can be changed. It will solve some of the inconveniance of supply and transport as well.

You can kill a Nova for 1,000 credits if you get the price to $1:10 damage.

There is a shortage of ammo in this game with only 1 factory on the left. I took 11 or 12 ammo to kill a Nemesis with my Nova. Its slow but faster than my BHEPT/ID combo. The fast recharging of shields weakens the BHEPT so the mass driver is superior here. I had to jump to all the factories to get ammo and pay a high price though. :roll:

jduato
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu, 3. Jun 04, 19:28
x3tc

Post by jduato » Thu, 26. Aug 04, 17:58

Burianek, I started from your Laser-Only Rebalance mod and ended up writing another mod. The idea is to make the Mamba, Dragon, and Phyton to follow the philosophy of the Split race, which is clearly represented by the Scorpio. This M4 is very fast. It has weak shields but it mounts AHEPTs, making it as powerful as an Orinoco (without PSGs). This is combined with your mod but including a few extra changes to make PPCs really useful.

I wrote the mod as well as a Readme file but I do not know how to submit it. Do I need a server to store the mod? Is Egosoft providing any support for this? Should I start another thread? I do not mind delivering my mod so that people can enjoy it but I have no time to maintain it. :cry:

Hubi111
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed, 10. Mar 04, 20:29
x2

Post by Hubi111 » Thu, 26. Aug 04, 19:14

Hi Burianek

again thanks for your mod, esp the economy part is waaaaaaaay better than the original. Have you ever tried to convince egosoft from your economy system? i will never understand what was logical behind egosoft's economy system, esp the factory-prices from egosoft are weird!

Thanks for your work and i hope you'll always be there to adapt your fine piece of work when new versions of x2 (patches, updates, add-ons *lechz*) come out.

greets hubi

User avatar
Burianek
Posts: 2981
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 03, 03:29
x3tc

Post by Burianek » Thu, 26. Aug 04, 19:46

Hubi111 wrote:Have you ever tried to convince egosoft from your economy system?
I might wear them down eventually :D
Seriously though, if anyone ever asks my opinion, I'd be happy to explain / defend it, but there are always many ways to look at something, most especially game balance. Everyone likes something a bit different. That the beauty / and the wisdom of ego supporting mods. Making the game customizable can only increase replayability. :)

Just keep letting the users on the german forum know that this is available, I unfortunately speak no german.
(except prost)
Thanks for your work and i hope you'll always be there to adapt your fine piece of work when new versions of x2 (patches, updates, add-ons *lechz*) come out.
I'm not going anywhere, this is the best game on the market imho. I haven't finished doom yet because I'm enjoying modding x2 so much ;)
"Nature's first green is gold" . . . stay golden.

User avatar
Burianek
Posts: 2981
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 03, 03:29
x3tc

Post by Burianek » Thu, 26. Aug 04, 19:50

jduato wrote: I wrote the mod as well as a Readme file but I do not know how to submit it. Do I need a server to store the mod? Is Egosoft providing any support for this? Should I start another thread? I do not mind delivering my mod so that people can enjoy it but I have no time to maintain it. :cry:
I'm pretty sure there are sites that will give free hosting space.
"Nature's first green is gold" . . . stay golden.

happykoala
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun, 11. Apr 04, 15:06
x2

Post by happykoala » Thu, 2. Sep 04, 11:01

I fooled around and ran a few test, but couldn't find the mass ammo column, apparently not the one Storm suggested... Any idea where it is?

Anyway I switch back to the original PSG damage. You can still blow up Ks with the modified version. Weakening it further isn't a solution as it also makes it weaker against smaller ships, the best solution is avoid using it against the big guys. IMHO its meant damage swarms of ships such as the Khaak clusters, "the bigger they are, the harder they fall"effect on m1/m2 and the distance effect is just weird. Hopefully they change the way the damage is calculated in the expansion.

RustiSwordz
Posts: 2633
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
x2

Post by RustiSwordz » Fri, 3. Sep 04, 13:08

Hi. The Laser Rebalance only mod is MISSING. No link in your origonal post.

Could someone put it back up please.

Thanks.
RustiSwordz Art Blog:

http://rustiswordz.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Burianek
Posts: 2981
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 03, 03:29
x3tc

Post by Burianek » Fri, 3. Sep 04, 15:33

RustiSwordz wrote:Hi. The Laser Rebalance only mod is MISSING. No link in your origonal post.

Could someone put it back up please.

Thanks.
It's not a seperate zip file, it's included in the regular laser/econ zip file.
"Nature's first green is gold" . . . stay golden.

creidiki
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu, 15. Apr 04, 16:58
xr

Post by creidiki » Thu, 9. Sep 04, 00:42

Mhhh Mhhh Mhhh... nice work as usual (too bad i always have to add the no modified tag mod myself, even that much modding irritates me :( ).

However i noticed that my Patrol Centaurs which used to be able to take on small and medium clusters nicely, now get fragged by a small cluster quite fast. Since i tend to sit around in my home sector for long amount of time remoting from my TL, and i dont wanna spend gazillions in replacing M6s, i guess ill go back to just the econ mod.

That's a shame cause it actually makes combat enjoyable (not an easy feat in X2 IMHO, especially if youre a freespace 2 addict like me), and apart from that effect its certainly the best third party piece of code thats ever graced one of my savegames... oh well. cant win 'em all as they say.

leo - grateful for the experience :D
I am not as think as you drunk I am.

Mailo
Posts: 1901
Joined: Wed, 5. May 04, 01:10
x3

Post by Mailo » Thu, 9. Sep 04, 08:36

Have you installed the XAI Advanced Combat script? That should really help your problem.

User avatar
Burianek
Posts: 2981
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 03, 03:29
x3tc

Post by Burianek » Thu, 9. Sep 04, 16:47

creidiki wrote:However i noticed that my Patrol Centaurs which used to be able to take on small and medium clusters nicely, now get fragged by a small cluster quite fast.
Sorry about that. :D
I'm actually surprised though, OOS combat shouldn't be affected I don't think. (I was under the impression it was only dependent on the laser energy / shield energy / hull values, and not on any parameters I changed)
In sector, I would've thought my changes would help your centaur more than the clusters, esp the speed increases to the HEPTs so they can hit the km5s occasionally.
What's changed that they're getting killed? if you don't mind me asking.
"Nature's first green is gold" . . . stay golden.

creidiki
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu, 15. Apr 04, 16:58
xr

Post by creidiki » Thu, 9. Sep 04, 20:55

Burianek wrote: What's changed that they're getting killed? if you don't mind me asking.
By all means ask away :D

It was actually in-sector. I have my patrols take care of all threats for me as i dont like getting out of my TL.

Previously:
Centaur vs. SKC = sure win
Centaur vs. MKC = win, but somettimes got hull damage
Centaur vs. LKC = death (but the patrol script is smart enough to call for the M2 in this case)

with your laser rebalance
Centaur vs. SKC = certain death (only manages to kill a few M5s, sometimes dents the hull of the M3)

wierd uh? i'd have thought it would have helped too.

anyhoo i just got back home from my holidays (family wasnt too amused i brought my laptop to play X2 on around with me ALL THE TIME) so if you want i'll fire it up again and run it and get some more data (plane was late so i couldnt buy Burnout 3 :cry: )

leo
I am not as think as you drunk I am.

Smauler
Posts: 232
Joined: Sat, 21. Feb 04, 21:54
x2

Post by Smauler » Mon, 25. Oct 04, 12:50

Burianek wrote:I hadn't planned on porting my econ v3 mod up to version 1.4. (but I'm glad you enjoyed it) Most people actually were turned off by the workaround. (I play with version 0.25 myself, or this laser - econ thingy, whatever) Version 3 should still work if you want to fire it up though. The only things I can think of off the top of my head that will conflict with 1.4 are the changes made to the lasertowers (I think they're stronger in 1.4) I can't guarantee that I'm not missing something else though. It took me quite some time to completely update version 0.25.

If you want to be patient, I'm trying to develop something that will take all the good things about econ v3 and not require a workaround to function correctly. It's potentially a long way off though, I dunno, we'll see. If I can get that to work, I definitely will. Like you, I'd like to eventually be able to set an individualized profit for each type of factory. Let's cross our fingers.
Hi Burianek. Like Desius I think I prefer the v3 too, although I must admit I haven't tried v2.5. I just like the spread better, and the fact the "better" (more complex) factories cost more and get you more profits. I've not got to the point (yet) where I'm building enough hi-level factories for the workaround to become a pain. I'm just about to start a new game with 1.4, and I'll be using v3 again, because I don't want to give up on it. If there are any problems, I'll let you know, and if there are any major ones, I'll use 2.5.

I'll also use your increased gun rates too, though I'm sure I'll be in for a nasty suprise, with 1.4 and quicker guns. I realise I'm behind the times, since 1.4 came out ages ago, but my PC blew up a while ago (literally, the PSU went bang and emitted worrying sparks :P). I got a new 500w PSU for £10.99 though :).

Congrats on your becoming part of the signing process, and becoming a mod too :D.

User avatar
Burianek
Posts: 2981
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 03, 03:29
x3tc

Post by Burianek » Mon, 25. Oct 04, 18:02

AHA! post resurrection :)
Thank you for your comments. Glad you like it.
Just be advised that neither v3 or v0.25 were made compatible with v1.4 of X2.
This mod, the laser/econ rebalance v 1.0 is the updated version, and includes a modified form of my 0.25 econ fix.
Cheers.
"Nature's first green is gold" . . . stay golden.

shifty lookin spoon
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu, 22. Jul 04, 14:24
x3

Post by shifty lookin spoon » Wed, 26. Jan 05, 21:30

Was there ever a final verdict on the OOS vs khaak being much harder? this mod looks like alot of fun, but i cant afford M2s yet to defend against super khaak!

User avatar
Burianek
Posts: 2981
Joined: Mon, 29. Dec 03, 03:29
x3tc

Post by Burianek » Thu, 27. Jan 05, 01:12

That's the funny thing, they aren't super khaak. If anything, I nerfed them a little bit. But I will cheerfully admit to knowing nothing about how OOS combat is calculated. I also never got enough money in my game to afford OOS defenses, not even an M6 :). So I don't know.
I'm willing to believe the reports though.
Cheers.
"Nature's first green is gold" . . . stay golden.

Post Reply

Return to “X²: The Threat - Scripts and Modding”