Update on philip_hughes

[mrbadger]

I was completely calm and unflappable during my Viva, then went for a walk to relax right afterwards, and was so preoccupied with post viva 'I said what?' type stuff I tripped and very nearly broke my arm.

Thereafter I dealt with the post Viva trauma by getting rather drunk while staying in one place and not walking about.

[Rapier]

I can't remember much about my Viva after the first couple of sentences from my external in which the basically said, "This thesis is worth a pass as it is, you only have to convince us you wrote it.". Since one of the examiners had chaired my progress committee, that wasn't hard. By brain went into autopilot at that point, so I didn't take much in.

I think, in many ways, the PhD Viva is one of the easiest exams - you should, by definition, be one of the most knowledgeable people about the subject. The only reasons for worry are therefore about whether you can build the appropriate rapport with the examiners and articulate your knowledge to them. That's not to say humans are rational in this regard though - we can can place a lot of importance on such things. Even here though, an outright fail is rare and you really should know it's coming if you're in that situation - there's usually a second chance.

[OmegaKnight]

Congratulations to the soon to be Dr. Phil

[Bishop149]

I can't remember much about my Viva after the first couple of sentences from my external in which the basically said, "This thesis is worth a pass as it is, you only have to convince us you wrote it.". Since one of the examiners had chaired my progress committee, that wasn't hard. By brain went into autopilot at that point, so I didn't take much in.

I think, in many ways, the PhD Viva is one of the easiest exams - you should, by definition, be one of the most knowledgeable people about the subject. The only reasons for worry are therefore about whether you can build the appropriate rapport with the examiners and articulate your knowledge to them.

Indeed, that's pretty much how it should be for everyone. If it isn't then your supervisor has seriously messed up when they allowed you to submit work that wasn't up to the standard. I was told something very similar going in basically "Don't worry the work is fine, we're just going to have a chat about it"

I'm only aware of three people who have "failed" their viva, one submitted against the express advice of their supervisor with about 1 years worth of work, one was flagged for plagiarism when they ran it through the similar-o-matic and the last one seemed fine just within the first 10 minutes the examiners were seriously questioning if she'd written it or indeed whether she was a biologist at all! . . . . I think that one was down to stress.

Most people actually quite enjoy their viva, but no candidate ever believes that going in however often their friends tell them "Actually its quite fun!"

[mrbadger]

I was nervous, and saved all that up till afterwards, but I certainly didn't find it hard.

I wouldn't say I enjoyed it, because they declared half of it as standing without defence, which bothered me, since I wanted to be able to talk about it.

One of my friends did blow his Viva, because his supervisor didn't do their job of riding herd on his work and his thesis was a mess. All duplication, no 'refer to section x', causing it to be almost 250,000 words. He was required to do a complete re-write and repeat a lot of the work before resubmitting, which took another two years.

That's the only time I ever encountered someone who failed, and I call his outcome failing.

[Mopy]

Congrats soon to be Doctor Phil when/if you get back here.

Soilology if I remember rightly

[jlehtone]

At 3:18 he noticed the first typo, of which he will notice many more in the coming years.
(Nothing personal, just the way it is )

You/anyone actually looks back at it afterwards?


Congrats to PhD in spe.



Around here the "viva" is slightly different. Beforehand, there are about two external reviewers that (could) give comments and corrections for the text. Once they are happy (an plagiarism/language check passes), the Faculty gives permission to "print the book" and calls an opponent for the thesis defence (aka disputation). One opponent. (Both reviewers and opponent tend to "owe" similar services to the supervisor.)

The act starts with the student giving a general introduction (for the audience, which can be layman for the defence is public and open for everyone). The opponent does also introduce the topic. Then there is the actual discussion that -- as viva -- demonstrates that the student has done the work.

The opponent writes an assessment/recommendation after the event, but (in addition) the Faculty does place couple observers (from the Department) to the audience, who write their opinion about how well the studend did fare.

Unfortunately, some invited foreign opponents[*] have misunderstood the instructions and are happy after only couple questions. In such case the student has next to no chance to show debating skills (or lack of). Hard to evaluate the performance, and definitely a mood killer for both the student and the audience. We want to see a proper fight, don't we? (Two hours is nice and common, maximum allowed is around four and rare, but but under half an hour with intros and all is atrocity.)


I usually quote Conan the Barbarian (1982) -- the answer to "What is good in life?" Enter the viva with that mindset. If things would go awry, you would at most hit the dust, but what is soilology all about?



[*]That works vice versa too. One used to our system went to be an examiner in a multi-examiner viva. Heard a time. Used it well. Then learned that the time was for all examiners' questions ...

[Bishop149]

i was quite proud that I only found my first typo many many months after I'd submitted it. Yeah I refer to it, its the one time in your scientific career you are FORCED to write your protocols down in full and properly. . . . well that and nature methods papers.

Your systems is an odd one.
I understand why the confusion with the foreign examiners happens, under most systems that I'm aware one of the following is true:
Viva is open to the public = Viva is basically a formality, more akin to a graduation ceremony than an exam. The student has already passed.
Viva is closed to the public = It's an exam taken seriously, exactly how severe an exam depends a bit on country.

The examiner whose unaware of your system probably looks around as assumes yours is the former type. Although they should have been briefed!

[Usenko]

In Australia the PhD is usually by publication - basically you publish three or more peer reviewed articles which are then stitched together into the Thesis.

At least that's how I understand it . .

[mrbadger]

In Australia the PhD is usually by publication - basically For a research Ph.D in the UK you publish three or more peer reviewed articles which are then stitched together into the Thesis.

At least that's how I understand it . .

Mine (UK) was five research papers published, then the subjects of those papers expanded into a 65,000 word Thesis.

I wouldn't say it was stitched together, because the total word count of those papers was only about 6-7000 in total.

Expanded on massively would be my way of describing it, the write up took 18 months.

It sounds like he did a Ph.D by portfolio, which consists of a portfolio of publications on a common theme. No easier to do, but I believe the final thesis construction isn't so hard.

[Rapier]

That's possible in most UK Universities too, but in some subjects more than others. In other subjects, the lead-in time for the publication of a paper can be as much as two years, so you'd basically have to do all the research within the first 12 months and then spend the next 24 mostly waiting with a bit of responding to reviewer comments.

[mrbadger]

Most Ph.D by portfolio students at my university are staff, so the extra time taken up by waiting for publication or conferences is less critical.

Getting a high quality paper published as a lone research student is really hard. Our normal Ph.D students really struggle, although some are so prolific they usually have more than one paper in the system at once.

The most I managed was two at once, but all my publications were in the first two years, the rest of the time was spent refining/expanding the work for the final thesis.

I'd never have agreed to do mine by portfolio. Doing mine by pure research was absolute hell though. I don't think I'll do another.

[Mailo]

Congratulations from me as well on joining the "Oh my god, what did I do with my life"-club

[Rapier]

I don't think I'll do another.

I have a recurring nightmare in which I'm doing a second PhD but haven't managed to do any research.

[philip_hughes]

Hello guys! Thanks for the comments and congrats.

1. Yes. I have already found my first typo.

2. I think monty python have an excellent presentation on what an Australian thesis defense is like

3. In all seriousness the method here is a proposal presentation at the beginning- you explain to a whole heap of academics what you intend to do. They then give the yay or nay to the whole project.

After that is the experimentation and work, typically 3 or 4 papers worth. Whether you publish or not is up to you but published papers cannot be criticized on review.

After that, the thesis defense. This is in the form of a presentation in front of the school or faculty. These are big events and my defense is online somewhere. I'll try to dig it up for you but I'm currently in a caravan in the middle of nowhere. These are tough to pass but if you have been working on something for three years and don't know enough to get you through, you don't deserve a phd.

Finally, everything is put into a massive document and some poor sucker has to read it. There are only 2 or 3 ppl in the world capable of marking my thesis which is both cool and terrifying.

In the meantime, I have submitted my thesis which makes me probably a doctor in waiting- no one has read it and told me im not so smart after all. I am perfectly happy to be in this position for the next month or so. If it goes through i graduate on may the 5th. My undergrad graduation was on may the 4th and yes, i wore a light saber to that.

It has been a fun ride. The project took me to the us, hungary, Korea, tasmania and new Zealand. It has been awesome to do a presentation and have leaders in the field come up to me cap in hand, begging for help with their various projects. I have a paper which is in the top 5 in the world, and i just submitted a further 3 with 2 more in the making. Funding and jobs are trickling in so i seem to have my future career sorted.

Enjoy