Trump

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Morkonan
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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 17:49

felter wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 04:14
...So it has only taken him less than 3 years to isolate America from the rest of the world, where 3 years ago everyone wanted to be America's friend, to now where no one wants to be associated with them. That's pretty well going, it's not an easy thing to do.
While I agree with criticizing Trump's "Foreign Policy," which appears to be a gumball machine of "turn the crank and who knows what you'll get" I don't agree we're "isolated" because of the cold-shoulders and social-pariah effect he had at the conference. That's obviously an overt display of displeasure at his actions/tactics/speeches. But, we're still doing stuff with our allies, still trading with people, still have embassies and are still talking with other nations.

In short - Trump sucks, but this was just a "cold shoulder" treatment so observers could see that other world leaders were not pleased with Trump. And, of course, to let Trump know they weren't pleased with him. I'm not sure he noticed...
Is it also true that GM are for laying off somewhere in the region of 15,000 employees. Wasn't GM one of Trumps big thriving companies that he was always ranting on about hiring new employees and doing great things under his presidential leadership, what's he saying now.
Yeah. He had spoken to them and made a Deal! A DEAL! Wow, a DEAL just like in the title of "his" book... Nice "Deal," Trump. AFAIK, none of the major companies has done much of anything that Trump promised they would do with the extra savings in taxes. Now, don't get me wrong - I am in favor of the corporate tax breaks! BUT, I didn't believe for a second these companies would do the things that Trump said they would. At least, not immediately. That was never something I though would happen. I do, however, believe it is a good move for the long-term and it will, eventually, have long-term benefits IF, and only if, we can "cover the spread" until then. If we can't and the deficit is an insurmountable problem without those rates, then we will have to raise them back or we will have to cut the budget in other areas. I am in favor of doing both, but especially budget cuts. And, budget cuts in places people don't like to talk about, like... The Military. /gasp
Santi wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 02:52
Career politicians take for granted that tax payers will fund not only their lifestyle but also their careers. While politicians will hire staff with the promise of influence and political power, an outsider like Trump, coming from the private industry, will hire based in results.

Also compare Trump with Macron, easy to spot who knows what people wants.
"Career politicians take for granted that tax payers will fund not only their lifestyle but also their careers.. especially favoring methods that fund their lifestyle without tax-payers knowing that they are paying for it." - Fixed that for you. :)

Trump isn't hiring people who "get results." Trump is hiring people who are celebrities and who may have gotten results using "any means necessary" including "illegal" means.

How many people associated with Trump's campaign or administration have already been indicted and plead guilty to crimes? These are the "results" oriented sorts of hires you're talking about? I think you may have a bit of an inflated stereotype of the "successful businessman" going on, here. Trump's "successful businessman" organization consisted of maybe a dozen people or so, with the rest being rank-and-file workers, hotel managers, landscapers and doormen... We're not talking about a Google-sized organization, here or some corporate climate that "promoted from within" letting the rank-and-file compete for higher positions based on meritorious service. Trump didn't run what's conceived as some traditional corporate machine. He ran an autocracy-oriented "family business."

Look at one of Trump's "hires" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Clovis

A radio talk-show host hired, which I assume you'd say was a meritorious hire, as Undersecretary of Agriculture for Research, Education and Economics... The dude doesn't have a science or research or even a teaching background. Nada. If anything, he's got some background in Security and politics, but Trump hired him for this? This isn't a special case, but it's obviously one of the most prominent ones.

That is the sort of "results oriented" hiring practices you say Trump engages in?

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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 18:44

Cohen sentenced to three years in prison..
found guilty on 9 counts..

one of those counts relates to campaign finance violations..
having ruled those financial transactions as illegal, can the court now proceed to similarly indict Trump?
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:11

Trump cannot be indicted while he is still the president of the United States of America, his problem arises when he is no longer the president of the United States of America. Even then he may be pardoned for any and all crimes that he has committed in the past, just like Tricky Dicky was, that will be up to the next President who comes after Trump.

Saying that, it is rumoured that NY already has the paperwork prepared for that day. Also as far as I'm aware there are certain kinds of charges that a president can't pardon, it would be nice if someone could confirm this.
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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 20:09

felter wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:11
Saying that, it is rumoured that NY already has the paperwork prepared for that day. Also as far as I'm aware there are certain kinds of charges that a president can't pardon, it would be nice if someone could confirm this.
I think I am right in saying that the President can only pardon Federal crimes, not State crimes, eg anybody convicted in the Southern District of NY can't be pardoned.

Happy to be corrected though :).
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:32

So yesterday some bloke from Google was giving evidence in front of congress, and one of the questions they asked was why when you typed in idiot into the google search engine, the result you got was, well I'll let you try it for yourself but you should be able to guess due to where this is being posted. By the way, try other search engines and you will get a similar result, so it's not just Google. The question also made it one of the most searched words yesterday and probably today too. :D
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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Thu, 13. Dec 18, 02:28

BugMeister wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 18:44
Cohen sentenced to three years in prison..
found guilty on 9 counts..

one of those counts relates to campaign finance violations..
having ruled those financial transactions as illegal, can the court now proceed to similarly indict Trump?
Just what do you expect to happen then? He'll pay the fine and serve his term as president just like obama did.
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Thu, 13. Dec 18, 04:23

Obama co-operated fully - Trump has done the exact opposite - there is a difference..

Prof. Painter suggests that Trump seek a plea deal and offer his resignation, accepting reduced charges..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xhgcilPNSw

- out of sheer spite, the lunatic will attempt to shut down the government, but he cannot be allowed to succeed..
- it's time for the Replicant's to come clean, and do the right thing..

- the lame-duck president is looking for a lame-duck chief of staff - any takers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAgZXpHK8Tw

PS. I note that he keeps a bust of Winston Churchill in his office
- hope we're not gonna get a "we will fight them on the beaches..." speech from the madman..

PPS. though I do remember seeing a photo of Thatcher posed kneeling at Churchill's knee, all starry-eyed - as she cruelly ripped the heart out of the UK economy.. :gruebel:
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Thu, 13. Dec 18, 12:34

- forget the wall..
- build a dome..
- bit pointless, really..
we all know that nowadays you don't invade your enemies ..you just buy them..

there is so much crap about to hit the fan..
what next?
Jared Kushner or Ivanka Trump to be made Secretary Of State..??
better still, Don Junior - he'll beat the rap then for sure :lol:

PS We still do not know what role Wilbur Ross played in the corruption, and how he managed to acquire several million dollars while doing so.. :gruebel:
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Re: Trump

Post by Rapier » Fri, 14. Dec 18, 18:20

felter wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:11
Trump cannot be indicted while he is still the president of the United States of America, his problem arises when he is no longer the president of the United States of America. Even then he may be pardoned for any and all crimes that he has committed in the past, just like Tricky Dicky was, that will be up to the next President who comes after Trump.

Saying that, it is rumoured that NY already has the paperwork prepared for that day. Also as far as I'm aware there are certain kinds of charges that a president can't pardon, it would be nice if someone could confirm this.
Pedantry Alert: I believe the President can be indicted in Court whilst in office, but it would be under seal (ie nothing would happen and we wouldn't know) until they leave office. Whilst the law doesn't prevent it, the internal rules and guidelines of the MoJ do, so it aint gonna happen in this case. I think I've plugged it before, but for untangling all Trump-related legal stuff, I would recommend the podcast All the President's Lawyers.
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Fri, 14. Dec 18, 21:09

Randi gives the low-down on the Buttina "problem"..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYQ9NMQg0Y0

- full details of the way in which the Russians intervened in the 2016 US electoral process, via exploitation of NRA "lobbying"..
- for "lobbying" read bribery/blackmail arrangements..

- why do you think Putin and bin Salman were high-fiving and grinning all over their faces, the other day..??
- amazing what you can achieve when you throw around large wads of cash - it's party-time, folks..

Mike Malloy elucidates - (language warning)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPfZ7ZeBhfU

Malcolm Nance has been warning us of this for quite some time.. :o :o
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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 04:33

felter wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 19:11
...Also as far as I'm aware there are certain kinds of charges that a president can't pardon, it would be nice if someone could confirm this.
The President can pardon all federal offences except impeachment.

Trump could pardon someone for murder, a Federal crime, but couldn't pardon someone's parking violations, a State crime. (ie: Powers reserved for the States belong to the States.)

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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Sat, 15. Dec 18, 06:40

- so the entire veracity of Dirty Don Drumpf's presidency of the US is hanging on a technicality..?
- not a good situation in anybody's book.. :sceptic: :sceptic:

- Oz has a handle on the truth..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7IsYYvvzvQ
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Re: Trump

Post by Santi » Sun, 16. Dec 18, 02:12

Morkonan wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 17:49
Trump isn't hiring people who "get results." Trump is hiring people who are celebrities and who may have gotten results using "any means necessary" including "illegal" means.

How many people associated with Trump's campaign or administration have already been indicted and plead guilty to crimes? These are the "results" oriented sorts of hires you're talking about?

That is the sort of "results oriented" hiring practices you say Trump engages in?
Have a look at the administration, they had to expand the revolving door because it cannot cope with the affluence of people coming in and out of it. What is the difference? Trump does not really have political luggage when it comes to hiring people, sure enough he will get some of his pals into the administration, but he will have no qualms about sacking them if necessary or it suits him.

And you are confusing "results" with "Trump results" that are two completely different things.
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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Sun, 16. Dec 18, 03:22

Santi wrote:
Sun, 16. Dec 18, 02:12
...And you are confusing "results" with "Trump results" that are two completely different things.
Are you sure you're not my ex-wife? :)

"But, honey, all I meant to do was-"
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions! That's what my mom always used to say and she was right!"
"Your mother doesn't have anything to do with this."
"How dare you speak against my mother!"
"But... That's not the issue. The issue is-"
"You never liked her! I knew it!"

No, Trump doesn't have the established poltical machine that has a Rolodex full of qualified people waiting in the wings. Not like he wasn't the Republican nominee or anything... The problem isn't that Trump doesn't know who to hire, the problem is that nobody who is truly qualified for many of the positions is willing to work for him. He's having to dig down deep to find staffers that have some kind of remotely justifiable qualification for an office. And, perhaps, Trump is making his own suggestions, too, refusing to accept the advice of people who might actually have some good recommendations for him? He's headstrong and definitely an autocrat, so that's not a far-fetched scenario.

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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Sun, 16. Dec 18, 03:42

As far as I can gather, Trump is not exactly the best person to either work for or with. It also seems to look like that he is incapable of taking any kind of advice. He always seems to think that he knows everything about everything and any view that is not his is always wrong, no matter what kind of evidence you have to the contrary. Any advice that he does seem to acknowledge, seems to come from nut jobs, total losers or even worse, fox news, all of the people who just make things up. He is pretty demeaning and two faced, he will only say nice things about you when you are in the room with him, but will say and be nasty about you as soon as you leave the room. When things do go wrong and they will, he will blame everyone else you included even though he would not listen to their advice to start with, because he thinks he is never wrong and never makes mistakes, so they must have done it on purpose to make him look bad. Would you want to work for someone like that.
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Re: Trump

Post by Santi » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 04:19

Morkonan wrote:
Sun, 16. Dec 18, 03:22
Are you sure you're not my ex-wife? :)

"But, honey, all I meant to do was-"
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions! That's what my mom always used to say and she was right!"
"Your mother doesn't have anything to do with this."
"How dare you speak against my mother!"
"But... That's not the issue. The issue is-"
"You never liked her! I knew it!"

No, Trump doesn't have the established political machine that has a Rolodex full of qualified people waiting in the wings. Not like he wasn't the Republican nominee or anything... The problem isn't that Trump doesn't know who to hire, the problem is that nobody who is truly qualified for many of the positions is willing to work for him. He's having to dig down deep to find staffers that have some kind of remotely justifiable qualification for an office. And, perhaps, Trump is making his own suggestions, too, refusing to accept the advice of people who might actually have some good recommendations for him? He's headstrong and definitely an autocrat, so that's not a far-fetched scenario.
In your own words, her mother doesn't have anything to do with this, or your ex wife for that matter. And it is true, you never liked them anyway.

You are missing a very important point, and that is "Trump results", tell me, of all those very qualified people you talk about, how many do not believe in climate change? I can answer that for you, none. How many believe in a immigration ban due to being muslin, none. Take trade, are they globalists or protectionism advocates?

Trump does not need or is looking for qualified people, he is looking for people that agree with him and get results, as is the norm in the private industry. His track record regarding electoral promises speak for itself in this matter.

Regarding the many administration vacant posts, it does not matter, those are political posts, agencies will keep ticking and doing their jobs even if their political overlords are missing. Of course Hilary or even Ted Cruz, before being elected or having an electoral program, will already have all those positions covered, because they are used as currency for political support. Mind you, for Trump that will change for the next elections, the longer he is on the job, the more political wise he will become.
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Re: Trump

Post by Usenko » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 07:59

Santi wrote:
Mon, 17. Dec 18, 04:19
Mind you, for Trump that will change for the next elections, the longer he is on the job, the more political wise he will become.
I wish I believed this.

I see no evidence to suggest that Trump has even the slightest intention of learning anything . . .
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 12:20

Santi wrote:
Mon, 17. Dec 18, 04:19
Trump does not need or is looking for qualified people, he is looking for people that agree with him and get results, as is the norm in the private industry. His track record regarding electoral promises speak for itself in this matter.
- but Santi - it is NOT a private industry..
- in fact, it is the complete opposite..

- Trump does not (- nor will he ever..) understand the principles of governance..
- which is why he flies off the handle like a petulant child when he loses the argument

- the man is a complete idiot when it comes to politics.. :( :(
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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Mon, 17. Dec 18, 23:23

Santi wrote:
Mon, 17. Dec 18, 04:19
...You are missing a very important point, and that is "Trump results", tell me, of all those very qualified people you talk about, how many do not believe in climate change? I can answer that for you, none. How many believe in a immigration ban due to being muslin, none. Take trade, are they globalists or protectionism advocates?

Trump does not need or is looking for qualified people, he is looking for people that agree with him and get results, as is the norm in the private industry. His track record regarding electoral promises speak for itself in this matter.
So, you're equating "result oriented hiring practices <sic>" with "hiring toadies who lack independent thought?" :) Sure, I understand hiring people with similar values is a general practice, but that precludes the assumption that the values being sought are desirable to begin with. Trump hiring people that hold his same values and beliefs is not something I consider to be A Good Thing™.

(Note: I'm not sure if those double-negatives in your assertion of what those people believe is what you intended. Though, I can see multiple interpretations there. In either case, I didn't address them directly because I was unsure of what you meant them to be proof of. Elaborate if you wish.)
Regarding the many administration vacant posts, it does not matter, those are political posts, agencies will keep ticking and doing their jobs even if their political overlords are missing. Of course Hilary or even Ted Cruz, before being elected or having an electoral program, will already have all those positions covered, because they are used as currency for political support. Mind you, for Trump that will change for the next elections, the longer he is on the job, the more political wise he will become.
I have yet to see Trump become "politically wise" in regards to the ruling houses of political policy in Washington after almost two years of his occupancy of the office of President. Trump's ideas about who is qualified to hold an office of great responsibility is... unconventional, to say the least, and irresponsible on its face.

I'm one of those "conservatives" that looks at Trump's administration, so far, and sees nothing there that's desirable. And, as far as my personal feelings go, I'm repulsed by what I see him doing and saying. It's morally offensive. I will be happy to vote for just about anyone else who runs against him. And... that's a dangerous attitude to have. That's how we got into this mess to begin with. :)
BugMeister wrote:
Mon, 17. Dec 18, 12:20
Santi wrote:
Mon, 17. Dec 18, 04:19
Trump does not need or is looking for qualified people, he is looking for people that agree with him and get results, as is the norm in the private industry. His track record regarding electoral promises speak for itself in this matter.
- but Santi - it is NOT a private industry..
- in fact, it is the complete opposite..
^--- This.

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Re: Trump

Post by Santi » Tue, 18. Dec 18, 06:48

Fair enough, you disagree with Trump hiring practices, obviously you think that anyone that does not hold your beliefs are "toadies who lack independent thoughts" Also "Trump hiring people that hold his same values and beliefs is not something I consider to be A Good Thing™"

There is more "I'm one of those "conservatives" that looks at Trump's administration, so far, and sees nothing there that's desirable. And, as far as my personal feelings go, I'm repulsed by what I see him doing and saying. It's morally offensive. I will be happy to vote for just about anyone else who runs against him. And... that's a dangerous attitude to have. That's how we got into this mess to begin with.

Great, vote for Cruz them, doesn't change the fact that Trump have achieved most of his electoral promises after two years into his mandate. And has done so by surrounding himself with like minded people and being ruthless not only with his administration, but also with other countries.

At this point I would suggest you refresh The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli.
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