Russia-Ukraine War

[Sovereign01]

Problem is, the Russians aren't letting anyone leave- it's not that civilians don't want to leave, it's that they can't.

[notaterran]

It seems like there's a lot of Russian money out there waiting to be seized:

Home Secretary Priti Patel has said: "I'm very open about the fact that for too long London has been the place that people have come to wash dirty money."
How much Russian money is there in the UK?

[...] the anti-corruption organisation Transparency International has identified at least £1.5bn of UK property owned by Russians accused of financial crime or with links to the Kremlin.

Link

That's a lot of moolah.

[greypanther]

Define obsolete... and noisy

Well, getting old and suffering from more and more breakdowns, pumps etc, getting noisier than first intended. Also where the base which they launch from is not in the best thought out place, I mean they need to exit out into the Irish sea which is shallow, with only two ways to go to get to open ocean. It would be doable I suppose, if you could have a Type 23 constantly on station, but there are not enough of them, and they too are getting old. I saw HMS Northumberland on C5 too. ( I wonder if the Russians recovered the solar array? )

Few countries could track them, but certainly Russia could. Few countries have submarine launched missiles too. The USA; UK; Russia are the only really viable ones for now, but China; India and perhaps North Korea, have some limited capability. Our Vanguard class subs, carry upto 40 warheads and 8 missiles on patrol, still bloody scary, as you say. The Dreadnought class is set to replace the Vanguard, HMS Dreadnought is already being built in Barrow. No idea when it will be launched, or indeed if it hasn't already.

@Scarcrow: Which navy did you serve in and on which subs? I always wondered just what percentage of Russian trawlers had such a secondary role.

[Alan Phipps]

@ greypanther: In a similar if different slant on that ... In about the late 1980s, early 1990s, one or two Russian 'trawlers' commonly used to appear and hang around UK missile firing ranges such as RA Ranges Hebrides when the UK was conducting telemetry trials of newer long range missile systems heading out to sea and into international waters. Their positioning trick was to somehow be in the signal cones and close enough for receiving telemetry from the trial, but without getting so close that they were in the danger area and so cause the trial to be called off.

Their 'trawlers' were the ones with overly large antenna arrays - and you didn't want to bargain for any of their fish catch (as our safety boats sometimes did with passing fishing boats) as strangely enough it was often rather stale. In the range safety and control building, we often had interesting nicknames for the ones more frequently identified near the trials. Much less often, an object speculatively identified as a submarine conning tower/mast would briefly appear on radar (in international waters) inshore of the missile flying away and right in the path of any back and forth control and telemetry signals. As to how they knew the exact when and where of the trials ...

I'm sure such trials are much more technical and secure nowadays.

[euclid]

This is worrying. I was aware that Azov is part of the defending forces but what this guy claims is news to me. Not sure what to make of that.

Cheers Euclid

[mr.WHO]

This is worrying. I was aware that Azov is part of the defending forces but what this guy claims is news to me. Not sure what to make of that.

Cheers Euclid

Dunno about West, but in Eastern Europe everyone know Azov battalion and are aware of their background.
However, that's basically one single fringe unit, that is in process of dying in siege of Mariupol (not gonna lie, puting this unit in most dangerous place in this War is smart move, they are the last one who would even think of surrender).
They are used by Russia to push de-nazification narrative over entire Ukraine.

This could be plausible narrative, if not that Russia has significant neo-nazi movement on par or beyond Azov.

[mr.WHO]

War is coming closer - those Patriot batteries couldn't arrive the moment sooner:
https://twitter.com/elubaczow/status/15 ... 1094677506


Edit:

OMG, I didn't knew we have this cute little thing, we need to resume production ASAP - Russia convoys are f*cked:
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/15 ... 6783416320

[burger1]

Russia asking China for military and economic aid? Should be interesting.

Mariupol might be freed soon? 1-3 days?




Trade embargo being considered??? - speculation

[mr.WHO]

Russia asking China for military and economic aid? Should be interesting.

Mariupol might be freed soon?

Seems like Russia is getting desperate - Chechen first, then Belarusians seems to refuse, Kazachstan refused as well, then Syrian mercenaries, now they asking China? What's left? Cuba? North Korea?


As for Mariupol, I highly doubt - out of all Russia objectives Mariupol seem like the only easy one for Russia - they have been shelling it for nearly two weeks and it's blocking the land bridge to Crimea.
Plus Azov is there, so they could use it as propaganda victory for their "denazification" narrative.

If there is a city that is likely to be completely burned ot the ground, Mariupol seems to be the most likely victim.

[Cpt.Jericho]

This is worrying. I was aware that Azov is part of the defending forces but what this guy claims is news to me. Not sure what to make of that.

Cheers Euclid

It's a well known fact that Azov's are Nazis; even on Wikipedia you can see what kind of people they are.

[burger1]

Next round of peace talks might start in an hour or two? 8:30 GMT

[Chips]

This is worrying. I was aware that Azov is part of the defending forces but what this guy claims is news to me. Not sure what to make of that.

Cheers Euclid

George Galloway interviewing ex-US person who appears to have huge amounts of information of what's happened/said... despite not being in Ukraine. It doesn't mean don't believe them, but it does mean understand your source. i.e. I'd look for extensive corroborating articles from other areas.

Why? Well, I'd certainly be sceptical of trusting anything by George Galloway.

George Galloway was (is?) a presenter for state Russian TV station, Russia Today. He's also on record as saying to Saddam Hussein "Sir, I salute your courage, strength and indefatigability", and been a presenter for Iranian state backed tv "Press TV". He has been highly supportive of Bashah al-Assad of Syria, Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, and other questionable despots. He's exhibited a long history of being considered anti semitic (being sacked from his radio job for being so too).

I think you can see where I think his narrative is going to be slanted from, and therefore it's not surprising what's being said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway

Then look at the person he's interviewing; who is he having on his show?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Ritter

You can read about him... and once more, someone claiming chemical attacks in Syria were staged and not the result of Bashar/Russia and he's been convicted of child sex offences. Unsurprisingly, since Dec 2019 he's been writing weekly opinions pieces for Russian State Controlled TV station... Russia Today.

By all means, be concerned, but research it. You've got two western Russian Government employees as your only source for information. What narrative did you expect?

[Falcrack]

This is worrying. I was aware that Azov is part of the defending forces but what this guy claims is news to me. Not sure what to make of that.

Cheers Euclid

It's a well known fact that Azov's are Nazis; even on Wikipedia you can see what kind of people they are.

You know, I prefer people who may be labelled as Nazis, but do not invade neighboring countries, over those who claim they are not Nazis, but do invade their neighbors.

"Nazis" defending their homeland against invasion from an undemocratic, bullying regime are a far more sympathetic group of individuals than the Russians are in this case.

[fiksal]

That's an interesting thought indeed.

wanna be Nazis vs invaders that level everything

[chew-ie]

Just as a random thought - to me as a German hearing others being called "Nazis" sounds a bit off. (as those devils were - hopefully - one of a kind and nobody should be named like them but them)

[Vertigo 7]

Just as a random thought - to me as a German hearing others being called "Nazis" sounds a bit off. (as those devils were - hopefully - one of a kind and nobody should be named like them but them)

Tell that to the clowns waving their flags at GOP rallies. Sides, there were plenty of people from Poland, France, USSR and so forth that joined the Nazi party during Hitler's time. It may have started in Germany, but it still spread and the ideology has persisted in some to this day around the world.

[chew-ie]

Right - I keep forgetting about the clowns

[mr.WHO]

Tell that to the clowns waving their flags at GOP rallies. Sides, there were plenty of people from Poland, France, USSR and so forth that joined the Nazi party during Hitler's time. It may have started in Germany, but it still spread and the ideology has persisted in some to this day around the world.

In case of Poland, technically there was no Nazi among Polish people, but there was significant German minority and mixed population.

Under german occupation they were given a choice:
Become German, or become Polish (which cause expulsion from your home at best, or bullet to the head at worst).
Such people most probably were not fully trusted by "pure" Germans, so they would have to double down in fanatism to prove themselves.
It's easy to figure out that at Germany defeat, these people suddenly tried found again their Polish heritage.
However, to my knowledge, the choice they made banished them from society and they were vigorously hunted down for collaboration (both Poles and Soviets had no mercy for them).

It was complicated, but we tide the loose ends.


To get back to Ukraine topic, the above problem will be exactly the same for Ukraine - mixed Ukrainian/Russian population on occupied areas, will have to make their choice and hope they choose a victorious side.
Given that the war is getting more and more brutal every day, there won't be a room to sit on the fence anymore.

[fiksal]

Just as a random thought - to me as a German hearing others being called "Nazis" sounds a bit off. (as those devils were - hopefully - one of a kind and nobody should be named like them but them)

you are technically correct, the capital N Nazis don't exist.

however there are groups that are inspired by fascism or Nazi party. There are also those that use the same slogans or names, symbols.
I admit I myself wouldn't be able to give a quick answer if you ask me where fascism differed from what Nazi party believed, nor I can tell you such difference if we try to even examine some of these modern groups closely.

I believe it's more accurate to call them either fascists or neo nazis. At least that's the most accurate I can be on this topic.

I also sometimes label nazi "wannabe-s" those that are more random, in what parts of fascism they choose to believe

[Golden_Gonads]

National Socialist extremists were a thing thousands of years before the Nazi's and will continue to be a thing for years to come.