Russia-Ukraine War

[Alm888]

you think those 600 billion dollars belong to some oligarchs ??
thats not correct, my friend, its owned by the state, hence the russian people

All the more reason to confiscate it, since it was the Russian state which launched this unjust and illegal invasion, and the Russian people who supported the current regime either through a misguided desire to Make Russia Great Again enabling the rise of Putin, or political apathy.

I have little sympathy for the Russian people suffering some financial loss as a result of Putin's military adventurism, because it is the Russian people who ultimately are responsible for their leadership.

So, your "Grand Plan" is to employ the "Stockholm Syndrome" on a country-level scale?

Basically, "humiliate them, rob them, expel them, cancel them (kill as many of them as possible) until they finally see that their enemy is in the Kremlin, change their ways, overthrow him and start to pay, pay, pay for what they have done!"
Sounds like a plan… for WWIII.

He who chooses shame in "war vs. shame" gets both a war and a shame. Something Russians have learned the hard way recently (say hello to the Olympics Movement). Not Putin, though. This guy seemed to agree with any humiliation the "Civilized World" trows at Russia as long as "North Stream II" gets launched. Oil must flow, after all. His loyal oligarchs must get richer by the day.

Or "Hanhikivi Nuclear Power Plant", provided by Russia to Finland (now joining the NATO!) without any cost (even the money Finland had to pay were leased from "Russian National Wealth Fund"). Guess how many new power plants were build inside Russia from all those funds? Yeah, the plan to appease the West went really well for Putin…

[Chips]

you think those 600 billion dollars belong to some oligarchs ??
thats not correct, my friend, its owned by the state, hence the russian people
stealing it to fund whatever you want means stealing healthcare / social security / police / firefighters from some 150 million russians who worked hard to deserve that

Need some proof. It's easy to make claims. Like "Russia has admitted defeat and offered to pay repatriations to Ukraine".

See?

[fiksal]

you think those 600 billion dollars belong to some oligarchs ??
thats not correct, my friend, its owned by the state, hence the russian people
stealing it to fund whatever you want means stealing healthcare / social security / police / firefighters from some 150 million russians who worked hard to deserve that

Need some proof. It's easy to make claims. Like "Russia has admitted defeat and offered to pay repatriations to Ukraine".

See?

Because it's bs.

Russian is not communist, people dont share value of goods among everyone. Russia has a (bandit) version of capitalism. Or a true capitalism perhaps?

then let's also add, that like in WW2 the world joined together against a common evil, and supplied those fighting it.

It already started.
Germany pladge to deliver 200k winter uniforms for Ukraine, which seriously might be more helpful than all weapons Germany has sent combined.

Here in Poland I've already seen dozen croudfunding actions for winter equipment, similar to those Bayraktar crowdfunding.
I bet there are more such actions in multiple countries.

Time to review donation web sites and charities again. I might donate to who I did before

Got any in mind?

Basically, "humiliate them, rob them, expel them, cancel them (kill as many of them as possible) until they finally see that their enemy is in the Kremlin, change their ways, overthrow him and start to pay, pay, pay for what they have done!"

That's called consequences that shouldnt be surprising to anyone.

I was not robbed, expelled, humiliated or cancelled. Maybe that's because I dont paint Z on my face and dig mass graves.

[burger1]

Russia drafting more than 300k currently. Are they immediately drafting the full 1M or more? They might be?

https://news.yahoo.com/hidden-paragraph ... 25603.html

Ukraine can probably produce their own winter clothing if needed. They will need to water proof it also since wet clothes and winter aren't the best. Might be more concerned about the civilian population and potential damage from freezing/bursting water pipes, mold, etc... Keeping water from freezing and keeping it usable is another issue. Food freezing is another issue. Hopefully they start up some sort of national information system that gives them tips/information on how to combat/prevent these problems. Knowledge might prove to be quite useful in this case if presented correctly in a an easy to comprehend manner that nearly everyone understands and can employ.

[clakclak]

I don't know why we are all talking about this winter clothing thing. Nato allready said they will supply ukraine with winter clothes two weeks ago.

Source: https://mil.in.ua/en/news/nato-will-pro ... -uniforms/
(German Source: <https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschl ... 14d870ccd9>)

[mr.WHO]

No one mantioned that Ukraine made POV exchange and got 200 Azov fighters for 50 Russian POVs (out of which one was some direct fellow of Putin)...so about that nazi narrative?
I recall Stalin didn't exchange his son for german POVs.

[Alm888]

That's called consequences that shouldnt be surprising to anyone.

I thought this is called "self-righteousness". Wars usually happen when some people decide they have the high privilege to judge and prosecute others based on their believes of what is right and what is wrong. In case of NATO, expanding eastward is "right" and Russia's westward expansion is "wrong". Plain and simple.

I was not robbed, expelled, humiliated or cancelled. Maybe that's because I dont paint Z on my face and dig mass graves.

Or maybe because you are not Russian.

I'm sorry, but if you (for some inexplicable chance) are Russian, this means you are outright lying, because, as we all know this, sanctions are working and Russian economy is in tatters! Have you not lost your job (provided you had one)? Weren't you denied any purchases of Western Goods? How are your travels? Are Russian planes still flying? What about cars? Or you are using horse carts already? How are VISA and MasterCard treating you lately? Eh, eh.

[JSDD]

you think those 600 billion dollars belong to some oligarchs ??
thats not correct, my friend, its owned by the state, hence the russian people

Suuuuuuuure, those multi-milion dollar mansion and multi-milion dollar yachts are all for sure working for (some) Russian people.
Definetly these enriched and boosted the life quality of (some) Russian people.

question 1:
you know what the "treaty of versailles" is? ..
iZ the essenZ of what brought hitler to power .. and made germans aaaaangry, veeery angry against the "west" / allied powers
// those who dont learn from history, are damned to repeat it! (and i dont mean germany, in this context)

question 2:
do you know the difference between private owned money (of oligarchs for example) AND state owned money (those 600 billion $ foreign exchange reserves) ?
this is not the same.

statement 1:
according to this logic (about international law and so on), iraq would have the same right to confiscate the oligarch "brittney spears" money (or hillary clinton)
cause she was all for that iraq war ... which too, was against international law

statement 2:
if it is "right" to confiscate money from a state (for example russian foreign exchange reservers / gold / what not), in which court can russia appeal that "decision"?
if there is no court to appeal against a "law", then this in not rightfully a "law" ... it is like a decision from the king of camel riders (at least in my view). its unjust.

question 3:
who on earth enforces international law?
those same countries who broke it in iraq? what makes those countries as "special" as russias "special mil. ops."? ..
who (on earth) voted them (in a free election) / gave them the "allowance" to do that?
what entitles those countries to .. A) make laws and B) at the same time enforce those laws?
who on this god damn earth has the right to declare germany a "enemy state"? (which it is up to this day, just read that eF-ing int. law)
what is an "enemy" in legal terms? .. is it something / -body unwanted, unaccepted, .. or what is it?

please explain that to somebody who doesnt have a screw loose!

While Germany and Japan have advocated for the deletion of these clauses from the Charter the removal so far hasn't taken place due to the complex amendment process.

according to this "law", italy (which will soooon be fascist one more time) is still an enemy state .. so what?

[fiksal]

That's called consequences that shouldnt be surprising to anyone.

I thought this is called "self-righteousness". Wars usually happen when some people decide they have the high privilege to judge and prosecute others based on their believes of what is right and what is wrong.

It ain't NATO burying people in hills.

But you are right.
Russia/Russians have invaded because it decided "they have the high privilege to judge and prosecute others based on their believes of what is right and what is wrong. "

I was not robbed, expelled, humiliated or cancelled. Maybe that's because I dont paint Z on my face and dig mass graves.

Or maybe because you are not Russian.

I'm sorry, but if you (for some inexplicable chance) are Russian, this means you are outright lying, because, as we all know this, sanctions are working and Russian economy is in tatters! Have you not lost your job (provided you had one)? Weren't you denied any purchases of Western Goods? How are your travels? Are Russian planes still flying? What about cars? Or you are using horse carts already? How are VISA and MasterCard treating you lately? Eh, eh.

на сколько я помню в России все заменят своим и лучшем)

есть третий вариант, я не в России


...

as I recall everything in Russia will soon be replaced by locally and better made

also, there's a third option. I am not in Russia

[mr.WHO]

question 1:
you know what the "treaty of versailles" is? ..
iZ the essenZ of what brought hitler to power .. and made germans aaaaangry, veeery angry against the "west" / allied powers
// those who dont learn from history, are damned to repeat it! (and i dont mean germany, in this context)

Are you f***king serious ? You just admitted Russia is 3rd Reich.
You do not appease Hitler, you starve him, sanction him and fight him.

question 2:
do you know the difference between private owned money (of oligarchs for example) AND state owned money (those 600 billion $ foreign exchange reserves) ?
this is not the same.

There is no need to make a difference between state and private money of Russia.
None of Russian oligarchs build their wealth from the scratch, Bill Gates style - there is a reson why they are on sanctions list.
Some russian billionares are not sanctioned - because they have nothing to do with Russian state and made their fortunes outside Russia state aparathus.
Basic due diligence is provided and some sanctioned individual even went to court to contest this - we'll see who win.

Both Russian state money and identified state connected oligarch money should be confiscated and donated to Ukraine as a reparations.

[CBJ]

Once again, stop abusing the swear filter.

[fiksal]

@Alm888

I admit, I am not the typical example of a Russian. Thanks for noting on the state of the economy though. All I get from 1TV and propaganda press is that how everything is peachy

[JSDD]

question 1:
you know what the "treaty of versailles" is? ..
iZ the essenZ of what brought hitler to power .. and made germans aaaaangry, veeery angry against the "west" / allied powers
// those who dont learn from history, are damned to repeat it! (and i dont mean germany, in this context)

Are you f***king serious ? You just admitted Russia is 3rd Reich.
You do not appease Hitler, you starve him, sanction him and fight him.

putin is not hitler ... if westerns succed with "keeping russia down" you gonna see a russian hitler taking over once putin is gone!
putin is kind of "moderate" ... there are far more dangerous creatures in russia

[mr.WHO]

putin is not hitler ... if westerns succed with "keeping russia down" you gonna see a russian hitler taking over once putin is gone!
putin is kind of "moderate" ... there are far more dangerous creatures in russia

So we need to surrender to Kaiser, hoping that we can avoid Hitler?
What a joke.

[Warenwolf]

I keep noticing that the ones who complain about Western abuse of power and hypocrisy (which admittedly are plenty of historic examples) at same time totally ignore Putin's abuse of power and hypocrisy. While Putin threatens with nuclear strikes, the very same people discuss legality of freezing assets of the guy threatening with nukes...go figure...

Semantics don't win wars. And we are in war. As to those who support Putin and are Russian, I will point out that instead of playing at keyboard warriors, there is perfect chance to support your side by joining the army. Enjoy the fresh air at the front instead of those that oppose such assignment*:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... -in-droves

*Putin's army is accepting foreigners too.

[JSDD]

@ warrenwolf
i dont need to .. i let russian / ukrainian winter fight for me (and time)

no, seriously, i just give you all (or some of you) a picture of yourself (like a mirror)
there is no right or wrong in this war. ukraine never had the right to pursue anti-russian policies, neglect procecution of ukrainian nazis who burned some russians in a building in odessa, and never had the right to use tanks against protesting russians in donbas armed with sticks and stones (in the beginning!). the same is true for russia: they are now robbing land from ukraine, killing ukrainians on the streets and make em pay a very cold price by destroying their (energy) infastructure ... they are basically bleeding those ukrainians dry (donbas and the occupied south made about 80% of ukraines GDP before the war, ukraine has no money, no weapons, and no economy to sustain themselves: either they drive the enemy out or they gonna vanish from the map)

i dont like both policies, neither russian nor ukrainian
what makes me (no angry but) "annoyed" is the bigotry of those (writing here in this forum) who support westerners unconditionally ... no matter what

@ mr.who
the kaiser wasnt such a bad guy .. personally i dont like any monarchy (neither the british, nor the german, and i despise the saudis)
// this incest project should be wiped off planet earth, thats how i see it (sorry for those "strong" words)

[Falcrack]

@Alm888

I admit, I am not the typical example of a Russian. Thanks for noting on the state of the economy though. All I get from 1TV and propaganda press is that how everything is peachy

Fiksal, you are my favorite Russian I have conversed with

[Warenwolf]

i dont like both policies, neither russian nor ukrainian
what makes me (no angry but) "annoyed" is the bigotry of those (writing here in this forum) who support westerners unconditionally ... no matter what

You were frustrated with Ukrainians 1 month into the war for not surrendering so don't try to pretend to be neutral party here. You went even so far to suggest NATO dissolving - after the war has proven beyond doubt what happens if you are not member of NATO.
Heck, few years back you were very "understanding" about Putin's meddling in US election and his assassination of alleged traitor of his on UK soil if not outright directly supporting.

So color me skeptical about your non-bias...

On other hand enemy TV is entertaining Putin's devotees with presentations of Nuclear Attacks on UK. Yeah, I am unconditionally supporting who ever is against that lunatic. Slava Ukraini.

[Falcrack]

question 1:
you know what the "treaty of versailles" is? ..
iZ the essenZ of what brought hitler to power .. and made germans aaaaangry, veeery angry against the "west" / allied powers
// those who dont learn from history, are damned to repeat it! (and i dont mean germany, in this context)

Are you f***king serious ? You just admitted Russia is 3rd Reich.
You do not appease Hitler, you starve him, sanction him and fight him.

putin is not hitler ... if westerns succed with "keeping russia down" you gonna see a russian hitler taking over once putin is gone!
putin is kind of "moderate" ... there are far more dangerous creatures in russia

Nobody is Hitler. But Putin well represents the type of evil that Hitler characterized.

Russia needs to be kept down as long as it is actively invadimg and annexing lands and people that do not belong to them. Sanctions, arms deliveries to Ukraine, etc. Once they are defeated in their war aims and their leadership is replaced with those who do not have such ambitions to conquer other nations, I wish them every success and prosperity and would support something along the lines of the Marshall plan to help them rebuild a better, more humane society.

But I foresee much suffering for the people of Russia before they reach that point, unfortunately.

[JSDD]

So color me skeptical about your non-bias...

neither zelenski nor putin ever paid me a beer ^^
honestly, i dont care about either one of em
i only care about my energy bill

>>> money makes the world go around <<<

good night