Russia-Ukraine War

Warenwolf · Post by **Warenwolf** » Wed, 19. Oct 22, 12:04

From Putin's official propaganda channel:

Kherson Russian appointed regional officials intend to relocate up to 60,000 civilians
https://tass.com/politics/1524621

To translate to normal language:
60 000 people, who for the most part in the last few weeks were hoping to be liberated, are now forced away from their property to follow the retreating Putin's army. And Ukrainians are being denied 60 000 people to their manpower pool.

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Wed, 19. Oct 22, 12:30

Warenwolf wrote: ↑
Wed, 19. Oct 22, 12:04
From Putin's official propaganda channel:

Kherson Russian appointed regional officials intend to relocate up to 60,000 civilians
https://tass.com/politics/1524621

To translate to normal language:
60 000 people, who for the most part in the last few weeks were hoping to be liberated, are now forced away from their property to follow the retreating Putin's army. And Ukrainians are being denied 60 000 people to their manpower pool.

As long as these people are safe (aka, not in the middle of frontline), this is a lesser evil - as long as they are alive, they have chance to leave Russia someday (and they might want to do it sooner, than later, given that "full mobilization" is getting closer and closer).

I think the bigger problem is that with civilians out, Russian will try to hold Cherson at all cost.
Still, Lyman was suppose to be turned into fortress to be held at all cost, yet Ukraine surrounded and sweept it clear quite fast (with hefty equipment gains).
Cherson might be similar.

fiksal · Post by **fiksal** » Wed, 19. Oct 22, 14:34

is it forceful relocation or a gesture of good will?
will Russia give these people food and shelter, some financial aid?

there's no way to know

one thing is sure, maybe should hide all Ukrainian colors and the language

felter · Post by **felter** » Wed, 19. Oct 22, 19:23

JSDD wrote: ↑
Wed, 19. Oct 22, 07:44

felter wrote: ↑
Wed, 19. Oct 22, 01:46

Vertigo 7 wrote: ↑
Tue, 18. Oct 22, 22:47

To some degenerates, the more suffering Ukraine endures, the higher the likely hood they'll capitulate to Russia and then somehow their higher energy bills will start decreasing. There's nothing you can say that will trigger empathy in them. There's nothing you can say that will convince them that Russia is wrong for what they're doing. They're just broken people, long before this war even started. The world does not exist beyond their line of sight and what they behold is theirs, to their mind, and attempting to introduce reality into their fantasy world is met with derision and dismissed. Some people are just beyond help, as sad as it is. The best course of action is to honestly let them wallow in their ignorance and misery alone. Let them shout into their vacuum. You and I know no one is listening. No one that matters will praise them for their support of Russia. No one will be convinced by anything they have to say, at least, no one anyone would be upset about losing.
I just don't understand it, I mean you can't get any lower than someone who knowingly kills children and baby's with their actions, there's a special place reserved in hell for them, and those that support them will be standing right next to them, so to admit to it is just baffling. I do wonder what their families would say if they knew.
... dont be hypocritical

zelenski did the same with crimea by blocking fresh water supply so that russian convoys of trucks had to resupply 2.5 million civilians with drinking water day by day
now who's the "bad guy" ?!

... and in the words of mrWHO
"what goes around comes around"

I think you may be a little bit confused by the word hypocritical, especially seeing as your example is total different from what you are claiming it is to make me a hypocrite, actually when you look at the meaning of hypocrisy your statement comes closer to the mark. I'm sorry, I know English is not your first language, so I'll try and explain.

Anyway in the way you tried to use the word both instances would have to be similar, I mean if you had compared say Russia turning off the gas to Europe and Ukraine turning off the water to Crimea then they are comparable, as they are pretty much the same thing. But, to make them or rather me a Hypocrite I would have had to say one is right, and the other is wrong, where I actually believe both are legitimate in the sense that the Russia has every right to turn off the gas to Europe as it is their gas, just like Ukraine has/had every right to turn off the water to Crimea, it is their water after all. Now when you look at it the way you are comparing them they are two totally different entities, the Ukrainians turned off their water they did not deprive Crimea of water, they could still get water just not from Ukraine, same with Russian gas, Europe can still get gas just not from Russia. While Russia are actively and purposely destroying power plants and networks that supply the civilian population their means of cooking and heating, and it's not something that can be easily acquired from another source unlike the water, not to mention that they are doing this in another country. For them to be anywhere close to each other, Ukraine would have had to be actively destroying the water infrastructure in Crimea, which they have never done.

The other way that I am not a hypocrite is that I wouldn't hesitate to condemn Zelensky or Ukraine if I even thought for an instance that they were purposefully killing children in any country, including Russia and Crimea, but turning off the water to Crimea did not do this, once they did it Crimea still had access to water and no one died from thirst or even got ill from thirst.

Putin's actions, on the other hand, has killed numerous children and babies, just the other day Putin himself said Russia was using precision missile in it's attacks on Ukraine and that they had only hut targets they intended to hit, that was just after they had bombed a childrens play-park and just before 7 missiles hut a block of flats killing 7 civilians, one of whom was a 6-month pregnant woman. It isn't even babies he is killing, it's unborn babies. And that's not the first time, either.

Now, here's why you are more the hypocrite, while I would be saying it was wrong if Ukraine were killing children, you are actively looking for an excuse and making up that excuse, so you can actually justify the killing of babies and children, that makes you the hypocrite and not a nice person, as you think it is okay to kill kids.

Post by **euclid** » Wed, 19. Oct 22, 19:49

Careful guys! Please stick to discuss the topic rather than the poster.

Cheers Euclid

felter · Post by **felter** » Thu, 20. Oct 22, 15:31

The second video the one with the picture of the little girl in it, you need to watch it. No 5-year-old child should be even thinking this, let alone saying, what she says. It sort of goes with what I have been saying, personal or not it needs to be talked about not swept under a rug while deniers need to acknowledge it, not turn their backs on it. Thankfully, this little girl is safe(ish) for now, but many others are not so lucky and didn't escape the bombs.

Sovereign01 · Post by **Sovereign01** » Thu, 20. Oct 22, 18:05

felter wrote: ↑
Thu, 20. Oct 22, 15:31
The second video the one with the picture of the little girl in it, you need to watch it. No 5-year-old child should be even thinking this, let alone saying, what she says. It sort of goes with what I have been saying, personal or not it needs to be talked about not swept under a rug while deniers need to acknowledge it, not turn their backs on it. Thankfully, this little girl is safe(ish) for now, but many others are not so lucky and didn't escape the bombs.

It's tragic that what she's describing wouldn't be out of place in a Terminator or Transformers flick.

felter · Post by **felter** » Fri, 21. Oct 22, 16:21

So right now it is looking like Russia are going to invade Ukraine from Belarus (again) on the West side by Poland, in an attempt to cut off the supply routes from Poland. It's a risky manoeuvre as the fighting could potentially cross over into Poland, bringing NATO into the conflict. But personally, if they do go for this route I think it will fail, as they don't have the troops or equipment for such a massive task, especially seeing if I know about it, so does everyone else and the Ukrainians with better equipment and seasoned troops will be waiting for them.

My thoughts, I think what they are maybe intending on doing is clearing out Kherson (region, not city) of civilians and their troops, before detonating a few nukes on the Ukrainians advancing army, turning Kherson (region not city) into a massive Chernobyl nuclear wasteland and setting up an unusable buffer zone to protect Crimea. Self inflicting wound, as they would also pollute any kind of water supply to Crimea for a long time to come. While they have done that, they will invade from Belarus in the hopes that their nukes will have made a major dent in the Ukrainian army and moral. While also showing that they are prepared to use nukes. It will all happen just as winter starts with the thought that winter will protect them from any counteroffensive and with them having destroyed all the power plants, leaving the Ukrainians to suffer over winter with no power or supplies destroying them with hunger and cold before the end of winter. This is all speculation on my part, but to me, it sounds like a feasible Russian plan that they would use.

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Fri, 21. Oct 22, 16:50

felter wrote: ↑
Fri, 21. Oct 22, 16:21
So right now it is looking like Russia are going to invade Ukraine from Belarus (again) on the West side by Poland, in an attempt to cut off the supply routes from Poland. It's a risky manoeuvre as the fighting could potentially cross over into Poland, bringing NATO into the conflict. But personally, if they do go for this route I think it will fail, as they don't have the troops or equipment for such a massive task, especially seeing if I know about it, so does everyone else and the Ukrainians with better equipment and seasoned troops will be waiting for them.

This would be complete stupidity on Russian side (thus it's very plausible Russia will do this) and might speed up the end of his war.

Look at the Kiyv offensive - Russia had everything - advantage of supplies, short logistic line, fresh and trained troops, element of suprise - yet they failed miserably.
Now they would try again, with second grade equipment, mobilized recruits with little to no training, plus HIMARS waiting and salivating

Now take a look at the map on Polish-Ukrainian border and realized...it's 4 times longer than from Belarus to Kiyv

...even the if and that GIGANTIC IF, Russia would succeed, exposing huge flank for attacks...Ukraine still have Slovakiyan, Romanian border and sea access from Odessa XD

Not to mention, ever since Russians have been pushed out of Kiyv, Ukraine was fortifying and mining the area just in case.
If Russia attack again from that area...they previous Kyiv offensive will looks like peak tactical genius operation.
This would be basically Ardennes Offensive, if we use WW2 analogy.

I don't even mention Poland and half of NATO peaking from the border with "hurt one single blade of grass on our end" attitude

Warenwolf · Post by **Warenwolf** » Fri, 21. Oct 22, 18:23

I will just reiterate what I have said two times before on this thread. Joint Belarus-Russia military group that was formed recently is just a paper force at this point in time and I think that the real point of all this talk about Belarus joining in with Russia is to draw forces away from eastern and southern fronts of Ukraine.

The forces arrayed on Belarus side would not need to engage Ukrainians except for few "contact engagements" here and there but merely function as a potential threat in similar vein like "Fleet in Being" concept functioned in naval warfare.

That being said, the right moment to do this was when Russians were still fighting around Kiev. Probable reason it was not done back then, I speculate, was because Lukashenko feared mobilizing troops - it would mean arming recruits that may very well not be friendly towards him. It is not that long ago that he had to put down protests against his rule across Belarus.

felter wrote: ↑
Fri, 21. Oct 22, 16:21
While they have done that, they will invade from Belarus in the hopes that their nukes will have made a major dent in the Ukrainian army and moral. While also showing that they are prepared to use nukes. It will all happen just as winter starts with the thought that winter will protect them from any counteroffensive and with them having destroyed all the power plants, leaving the Ukrainians to suffer over winter with no power or supplies destroying them with hunger and cold before the end of winter. This is all speculation on my part, but to me, it sounds like a feasible Russian plan that they would use.

Well Ukrainians assume that Kremlin is thinking of repeating 1941 blowing up of Dneprostroi Dam (and blaming it on Ukrainians). Flooding back then killed between 20 000 to 100 000 people.

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Fri, 21. Oct 22, 18:32

Warenwolf wrote: ↑
Fri, 21. Oct 22, 18:23
Well Ukrainians assume that Kremlin is thinking of repeating 1941 blowing up of Dneprostroi Dam (and blaming it on Ukrainians). Flooding back then killed between 20 000 to 100 000 people.

There were some simulation of what will be the flood area, if the dam would be destroyed - it seem like most of flooding will be on Russian/Crimean side of Dnieper.

What are the odds, that Russia will flood more of their own forces than Ukrainian ones?
Looking at last months it's very likely - we are yet to reach peak stupidity.

burger1 · Post by **burger1** » Fri, 21. Oct 22, 20:37

Isn't the dam fed by areas by kyiv? It looks like a long series of dams. Couldn't they lower the water levels? Is there a time of year where water levels naturally drop? Dams are also quite hard to blow up they are fairly sturdy structures maybe they would screw up anyways?

Damage the dam or the area by it and let the water run off a bit? Blow up the lock by the dam? Looks like it would let some water through but no great flood levels.

felter · Post by **felter** » Sat, 22. Oct 22, 00:59

@Warenwolf I agree, Belarus will not send its troops into Ukraine for one good reason, Lukashenko is scared if he sends his troops into Ukraine there will be no one left to stop the Belarus Freedom Fighters from toppling his government and potentially stringing him up. The man is not liked and is only kept in power with the help of his military and Russia. Right now, he cannot rely on Russia if anything happens, leaving only his military to protect his behind, so no way is he going to send them away.

Right now Russia is amassing troops and equipment in the West of Belarus, that is why it is suspected that Russia is going to attempt this new push into Ukraine. The alliance and joint military thing with Belarus is just a smoke screen to try and cover up these troops being in Belarus, but seeing as even I know about them, then I don't think that it is working.

JSDD · Post by **JSDD** » Sat, 22. Oct 22, 07:40

felter wrote: ↑
Sat, 22. Oct 22, 00:59
@Warenwolf I agree, Belarus will not send its troops into Ukraine for one good reason, Lukashenko is scared if he sends his troops into Ukraine there will be no one left to stop the Belarus Freedom Fighters from toppling his government and potentially stringing him up.

do be sooo sure about that
i too meant that russia is not gonna invade .. just days before it happened ^^

what does he have to loose ??
not much, he's already included in most of the sanctions ...

what can he win?
territory, tax payers, and what not ..

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sat, 22. Oct 22, 12:34

JSDD wrote: ↑
Sat, 22. Oct 22, 07:40
what does he have to loose ??
not much, he's already included in most of the sanctions ...

Best case, he loose power to West aligned oposition.
A bit worse case that Russia would use it as oppotunity to change him to even bigger pro-russian figurehead.
Worst case, Russia can use it as a oportunity to completely annex Belarus as well (since they already started with Ukraine and Georgia - Russia could even use it as "consolation price" to draw away the attention from failure in Ukraine).

For Lukashenko, it's the best to literally do nothing and stall and lie as long as possible.

JSDD wrote: ↑
Sat, 22. Oct 22, 07:40
what can he win?
territory, tax payers, and what not ..

Nah, Putin was careful not to strenghten Lukashenko and keep him on tight leash, even before the war.
I can't imagine Putin will reward him for not active participation in first months - I bet that in his mind, Kiyv offensive would be a success, if Belarus would participate from the start - he's 100% salty about this.

JSDD · Post by **JSDD** » Sat, 22. Oct 22, 17:32

civilians being "greeted" by their ukrainian liberators ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTXXVhSVm5c

*graphic*

this channel suprisingly has many such "uncensored" videos ...

this one is from vice news ... in donbas
https://youtu.be/fejo8cXMpSw?t=474

Post by **Tamina** » Sat, 22. Oct 22, 17:54

This first video has absolutely no context. The title claims things that are neither verifyable from the video alone, nor is that channel alone a trustworthy source.
When I was in school, our teachers taught us how to handle media properly, and I might have not been the best in school but jesus what is wrong with people in this country.

JSDD · Post by **JSDD** » Sat, 22. Oct 22, 18:59

1. wouldnt it be quite laborious to stage this video?
2. if so, who are those "volunteers" accepting such harsh treatment for a fake? (i mean the last one in this video seems to be choking and bleeding ...)
3. why are those guys all wear ukrainian flag (or the colors blue/yellow) on their cloths?
4. a ukrainian solider in rage (about casualties in his family, for example) might be "proud" to film & share such "cowardice" (many armed against the unarmed few)

... so i (personally) am concluding:
probability of authenticity: 90%

i'd know why ukrainians like to see suffering russians / "collaborators" ... because the themselves are having a hard time
but i also know that in these times, you cant trust any of the conflict sides (100%)

/// und da du ja auch deutsch verstehst, kannste hier vielleicht den "grund" für die eskapaden sehen
https://youtu.be/_RVzeHTYWBQ?t=548

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sat, 22. Oct 22, 19:22

JSDD wrote: ↑
Sat, 22. Oct 22, 18:59
i'd know why ukrainians like to see suffering russians / "collaborators" ... because the themselves are having a hard time
but i also know that in these times, you cant trust any of the conflict sides (100%)

Sorry, but I don't get this take - why it's suppose to be that strange to brutally deal with collaborators of invading force?
That's quite what happens all the time, e.g. French were deling with their collaborators as soon as Allies were liberating their territory, other European countries were doing the same.

Obviously there will be the cases of overreach or false accusations (e.g. a neighbour holding personal grudge), but I can't find the case where people were calm and forgiving - that's the ugly side of war that won't go away as long as war is a thing.

Warenwolf · Post by **Warenwolf** » Sat, 22. Oct 22, 19:52

That video is used for russian propaganda and you are linking to Kremlin propaganda youtube channel.... By this point in conflict, anyone with IQ above room temperature should know that this is a big red flag.

It was used as counterpoint in march when Bucha massacre become public. Since Kremlin propaganda works in 6 months cycles, I guess it was time to recycle it again and Russian net warriors are being paid per post and not creativity so here we with a copy and paste shoddy work...

Full video, starting with some men attacking a lone soldier, which allegedly shows what happened before the beating
https://t.me/kyivoperativ/94133
Anyway, note that all the people in the video are of the fighting age.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Re: Russia-Ukraine War