Russia-Ukraine War

[chew-ie]

i'd know why ukrainians like to see suffering russians / "collaborators" ... because the themselves are having a hard time
but i also know that in these times, you cant trust any of the conflict sides (100%)

Sorry, but I don't get this take - why it's suppose to be that strange to brutally deal with collaborators of invading force?
That's quite what happens all the time, e.g. French were deling with their collaborators as soon as Allies were liberating their territory, other European countries were doing the same.

Obviously there will be the cases of overreach or false accusations (e.g. a neighbour holding personal grudge), but I can't find the case where people were calm and forgiving - that's the ugly side of war that won't go away as long as war is a thing.

The take is that there is this one sign that Ukraine are devils as well - because they use torture! Meanwhile the linked documentation is about the aftermath of the invasion - the Massacre in Izyum:

https://youtu.be/_RVzeHTYWBQ?t=548

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That video is used for russian propaganda and you are linking to Kremlin propaganda youtube channel.... By this point in conflict, anyone with IQ above room temperature should know that this is a big red flag.

^ This. These days everybody should be used to the fact that cherry-picking / faking context is a thing - especially in social media and amateur media but in propaganda as well.

[mr.WHO]

I found out more interesting take on Russian plan of blowing the dam in Cherson.

If it would happen, not only it would do much more dammage to Russian side of the river...but also with much lower water level, the canal that supply water to Crimea will stop working.
Ohh and Zaporozia nuclear plant will no longer be able to use the water for cooling when water level will drop.

That really look more and more dumb on Russian side.

It might be the dumbest action of this war on Russian side.
What's worse, they already have historic precedens of blowing dams during WW2 to stop German advance, but overall doing more dammage to themselves, rather than to enemy.

[JSDD]

hello warrenwolf
how is it going ?!

... there you got it:
https://youtu.be/_RVzeHTYWBQ?t=1086

civilians, waiting to be tortured guantanamo-style by ukrainian army, being accused to "phone" over the coordinates of buildings to the russians ..
(i mean: come ooonnnhhh !! )

this time you can try to "denounce" the source all day long ...
even if i dont like the one-sided newZ reporting here in germany .. ARTE (which created that documentary) is the french/german public news channel
(something like PBS in the US)

... you hear 'em screaming ?!
... who' kickin' "humanitarian law" right between the legs here ?!

what a nice liberators' greeting

[Warenwolf]

What's your point?

Go back in this thread and see which user re-posted Amnesty International criticism of Ukraine. What I was doing in the post you responded to is just commenting on your interpretation of a propaganda post and advocation of a Russian propaganda channel earlier in this thread.

I have no issues condemning Ukrainians for un-professionalism and mob-rule when it comes to dealing with traitors but it is not going to change my position on this easily being avoided by Putin not being in Ukraine in the first place.

That being said, the video is from area around town of Izyum - same area where number of mass graves with civilians were found, something this video also refers to...which you seemed OK with somehow - or at least not worth mentioning? Very telling...

[JSDD]

i'm just not comfortable with the fact, that ..
western countries (for example germany) wages a trade war with russia from which our economy suffers heavily ..
and fund the monthly paychecks of those Bssholes who are treating civilians (be it ukrainians or not) like in that video .. without any remorse ..

is this what we are aiming for ??

[Teladi CEO]

i'm just not comfortable with the fact, that ..
western countries (for example germany) wages a trade war with russia from which our economy suffers heavily ..
and fund the monthly paychecks of those Bssholes who are treating civilians (be it ukrainians or not) like in that video .. without any remorse ..

is this what we are aiming for ??

Is what your aiming for the genocide of ukrainians by Russians who are being funded by the economy which depends on their oil? In one your economy suffers because it’s supporting a nations independence, in the other it suffers because it’s depending on another nation which is slowly seeping away your economic independence.
Either way, it seems like either way the idea of yours funds a bunch of people who are treating civilians… without any remorse. Personally, I would find the people who are not attempting to bomb power grids to cause millions to possibly freeze better than one which is doing so.

[EGO_Aut]

i'm just not comfortable with the fact, that ..
western countries (for example germany) wages a trade war with russia from which our economy suffers heavily ..
and fund the monthly paychecks of those Bssholes who are treating civilians (be it ukrainians or not) like in that video .. without any remorse ..

is this what we are aiming for ??

Yes our economy will suffer heavily,....but we (our leaders) can say "but we are the good boys" (and there is only China left to dominate).

Will it end if RU is defeated? I bet no, do you remember UKR civil war.....

Once upone, it was the time of Jugoslavia Civilwar, my teacher told us to never trust the news because they are forced and not independent. He was right, they are all liars (they do not check the sources, but do a lot copy&paste) and follow the leaders.

[Tamina]

See guys, this is what I meant with "what is wrong with this country". People denouncing reality, while they voluntarily place themselves in the dependency of russian propaganda. I don't think western society is "resilient" against this type of information warfare, and resting on the thought only makes things worse. People actively choose to think this way.

[mr.WHO]

Yes our economy will suffer heavily,....but we (our leaders) can say "but we are the good boys" (and there is only China left to dominate).

The economy would suffer either way.

At least now both people and politician are aware of the problem and on the road to fix things, without relying on mercy from nutjobs like Putin, Xi or Saudi princes.
China is the same paper tiger like Russia (China has the fasted ageing population on planet and projected to loose 500 milion people by 2060, while having more retiree population than entire US).
Xi is the same as Putin, just with a time lag.
Just like Russia, eventually due to internal problems Xi will fall to a charm of "short victorious war" with Taiwan and he will fail the same way.

The signs are already there, both on China/Xi side as on the Western side (technological sanctions on China, business gradually moving away from China, both US and EU investing in domestic chip production).

The good news is that "The Allies" seem to be aware of impending problems and still have just enough time to prepare for them.

[mr.WHO]

Another Russian military plane just 9/11 housing district in Irkutsk (Russia).

It looks like Russian airforce is in deep and begin to be more danger to Russia.

[fiksal]

is this what we are aiming for ??

are you comfortable with how many people Russian army killed, tortured and displaced?

have you ever seen photos from Ukraine?

You have never answered this

[UnknownObject]

People denouncing reality, while they voluntarily place themselves in the dependency of russian propaganda.

I can say only for Russian people, and I think it's caused by several factors.
1. Our country badly suffered from nazis. 27 millions Soviet citizens were deceased during the WWII, most of them being civilians, so nazism is a synonym of the greatest evil. Now the TV tells us about alleged Ukrainian neo-nazism, and it causes anxiety, so making it hard to check the facts.
2. The Cold War has never ended, so alliancing of a friendly country with NATO and EU is perceived as a potential threat. But the false "genius of the geopolytics" ruling our country has actually helped NATO to expand. And the same Cold War feeling makes it hard to believe the western media, as they seem to defame Russia.
3. Bombings of Donetsk and Luhansk in 2014 were outrageous for our people, and official propaganda made them a trump card for their whataboutism rhetorics. Russians are afraid, that if Putin didn't invade, Ukrainian alleged nazis would have entered Donetsk and Luhansk and genocided their population.
4. Treason is the greatest sin in Russian culture, and some people perceive it like one has to support any actions of Russia no matter what.

Not all of Z-supporters are fascist. Most of our people are driven by fear, so they believe: if the war is inevitable, we HAD to strike first.

About the videos: yes, I have seen some videos showing harsh punishments of collaborants and looters. That's only because Ukrainians see treason as the greatest sin, just like us, and they're obviously nervous because of the war.

[mr.WHO]

i'm just not comfortable with the fact, that ..
western countries (for example germany) wages a trade war with russia from which our economy suffers heavily ..
and fund the monthly paychecks of those Bssholes who are treating civilians (be it ukrainians or not) like in that video .. without any remorse ..

is this what we are aiming for ??

If you're not comfortable with them, here is the alternative - this will definetly make you confortable:
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/stat ... 8145685504

[chew-ie]

If you're not comfortable with them, here is the alternative - this will definetly make you confortable:
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/stat ... 8145685504

What's this called? Entertainment?

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People denouncing reality, while they voluntarily place themselves in the dependency of russian propaganda.

I can say only for Russian people, and I think it's caused by several factors.
1. Our country badly suffered from nazis. 27 millions Soviet citizens were deceased during the WWII, most of them being civilians, so nazism is a synonym of the greatest evil. Now the TV tells us about alleged Ukrainian neo-nazism, and it causes anxiety, so making it hard to check the facts.
2. The Cold War has never ended, so alliancing of a friendly country with NATO and EU is perceived as a potential threat. But the false "genius of the geopolytics" ruling our country has actually helped NATO to expand. And the same Cold War feeling makes it hard to believe the western media, as they seem to defame Russia.
3. Bombings of Donetsk and Luhansk in 2014 were outrageous for our people, and official propaganda made them a trump card for their whataboutism rhetorics. Russians are afraid, that if Putin didn't invade, Ukrainian alleged nazis would have entered Donetsk and Luhansk and genocided their population.
4. Treason is the greatest sin in Russian culture, and some people perceive it like one has to support any actions of Russia no matter what.

Not all of Z-supporters are fascist. Most of our people are driven by fear, so they believe: if the war is inevitable, we HAD to strike first.

About the videos: yes, I have seen some videos showing harsh punishments of collaborants and looters. That's only because Ukrainians see treason as the greatest sin, just like us, and they're obviously nervous because of the war.

Some interesting points / insights. About 2 - the sad truth about this is that the cold war has indeed ended. At least in europe and at least for the young people. I've had a lot of russian colleagues during university and in most of the companies / projects I worked in / on (IT sector). There weren't those hard borders left both in society and in politics. Not sure if people remember correctly what the real cold war was like - there east vs west was omnipresent. Not so the last 20 years - there things evolved beyond that - best example would be the trading and cooperation on infrastructure / energy sector. This would never have happened if the "true" cold war would've still been up.

But of course, this has changed now. Putin threw all this progress out of the window with one "simple" act of aggression by invading the Ukraine. Before that, there weren't many reservations between most parts of Europe and Russia or even China. (both politics and companies invested there) Since the Ukraine invasion this has dramatically changed.

Of course, this is a very german / my pov (e.g. polish pov might differ as I've learned in this thread).

[fiksal]

Not all of Z-supporters are fascist. Most of our people are driven by fear, so they believe: if the war is inevitable, we HAD to strike first.

I wonder what drives that in our psyche, that we have to be the unbeatable empire, versus the alternative, a country with close ties, trade relations, freedom.

I will agree with you there, not all Zs are fascists, but they support the cause and are hard to distinguish from actual fascists.

Take my relatives and family, educated, anti war, suffered from Stalin's repressions, was even enemy of country then. Now - only speak positively of Stalin, of Putin, support the war, speak negatively of Ukrainians, consider the collateral damage acceptable since Ukrainians literally to blame since they decided to fight against the (invading) Russian army. I was previously called that as a real Russian I just support the government / the mother county, no matter what happens.

I get it though, I see where patriotism, cult of personality and fascism are blurred.

Is everyone fascist? No. Do they agree with fascists?. Yes.

What I consider a real Russian differs quite a bit then.

[mr.WHO]

Hungary announced they will ratify Finland and Sweden NATO menbership by mid December this year.

This will only leave Turkey as last country left to ratify.


In other news - the war in Ukraine destroyed 90% of wind power and 50% of solar power sources - something to contemplate for those who claim renevables are more decentralized and less vulnerable to war dammage.

[Warenwolf]

In other news - the war in Ukraine destroyed 90% of wind power and 50% of solar power sources - something to contemplate for those who claim renevables are more decentralized and less vulnerable to war dammage.

First time I heard that claim - sounds like something from reddit or youtube comment.

All electrical generation methods are vulnerable to war although certain types are less vulnerable (as in easier to repair and set up again) than others - provided you can get reserve parts to a country in a war. There is also a fact that breaching radiation shield of a NPP and flattening wind park has very different set of consequences for people affected.

PS: I am not arguing for one or another type of electrical generation, although I am very partial to certain types of NPPs.

[burger1]

Wind power isn't decentralized. It can be if people set up wind turbines, etc.... in their back yards.

Solar can be decentralized on a house by house basis.

For low power usage both could be deployed in Ukraine.

You can generate energy a variety of ways.

Energy storage and regulation is another matter.

Ukraine has a wide variety of fuel options. Coal (coals very light , can carry a sack of it, and burns for quite a while but is dirty), wood products (wood pellets burn for quite a while), oil products from plants and other sources, biofuel, solar, oil lamps, hand crank lamps, etc..... Can centralize some things in small groups but keep the rest spread out to make less appealing targets. Anyone with a car technically has a generator. There's probably quite a few electric cars/batteries in the EU region that could be used to store charge. 65 kwh -140 kwh batteries. In Africa regions there's charging station stores. You can get low power led lights (1 lumen) that can last ~1500 hours on a AA battery.

[UnknownObject]

Some interesting points / insights. About 2 - the sad truth about this is that the cold war has indeed ended. At least in europe and at least for the young people. I've had a lot of russian colleagues during university and in most of the companies / projects I worked in / on (IT sector). There weren't those hard borders left both in society and in politics. Not sure if people remember correctly what the real cold war was like - there east vs west was omnipresent. Not so the last 20 years - there things evolved beyond that - best example would be the trading and cooperation on infrastructure / energy sector. This would never have happened if the "true" cold war would've still been up.

Now the cold war is ongoing with Putin being the main participant. I do hope Europe isn't hostile to Russia.
But the internal propaganda says NATO is an anti-Russian alliance in the same way it was anti-Soviet. They tell US and Europe don't want equal partnership with us, but rather subduing and economical exploitation, so the world remains monopolar, not multipolar. What is a typical Russian POV, you can learn from 2007 Putin's Munchen speech.

"Gay propaganda" card is also played by Russian policitians, as if the West wanted to undermine Russia this way. They tell a lot how fanatical the "SJWs" are.

I wonder what drives that in our psyche, that we have to be the unbeatable empire, versus the alternative, a country with close ties, trade relations, freedom.

Inferiority complex. At heart they think Russia is a loser country compared to the USSR (and yes, 1990s were such a disappointment), so they believe Putin is Making Russia Great Again (sincerely saying, he didn't succeed because he took a wrong direction, but his "success" sells well to people)

I wish to say to everyone we aren't orcs. Most of us are neurotized and afraid people, but not as much differing from other peoples as one could think.

[mr.WHO]

First time I heard that claim - sounds like something from reddit or youtube comment.

Source is Herman Haluszczenko from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_ ... _(Ukraine)

Wind power isn't decentralized. It can be if people set up wind turbines, etc.... in their back yards.

Solar can be decentralized on a house by house basis.

For low power usage both could be deployed in Ukraine.

I think this might be the reason for so high losses in Ukraine - whatever wind & solar they have are probably big centralized plants, with very little individual instalations.

I fully agree that personal/individual/house installations are good decentralized method, which would be very good for wartime axuilary source (you won't power a factory with it, but for indivudual use in case of grid outtakes, it would be a godsent).