Russia-Ukraine War

[chew-ie]

Russia is setting up a paramilitary defense force @ Saporischschja. Sounds awfully familiar ...

Source: https://www.tagesschau.de/newsticker/li ... Heimatwehr (german state media)

[mr.WHO]

Good news - aparently Belarus withdrew most of their forces from Belarus-Ukraine border and units got back to their barracks.

Seem like potato man Lukashenko still has some bit of self preservation instinct.

[JSDD]

Meanwhile, U.S. politicians are growing wary of the money pipeline to Ukraine.

More than two dozen liberal House members are calling on President Joe Biden to shift course in his Ukraine strategy and pursue direct diplomacy with Russia to bring the months-long conflict to an end.

That's from the liberal side. The Republicans have already announced that they will put a stop to the hemorrhaging of U.S. resources if they become the majority in the House come November.

crazy ... we dont hear such voices even her in germany
(except from the far left which represent about 5% of the population)

I'm guessing that without continued and even increased foreign military aid, Ukraine cannot maintain the level activity that they have mustered thus far.

but russia can ... regardless of those 600 billion dollar the west is about to steal from the russian people
thats why i said months ago: watch out this winter ... the bear aint gonna sleep, he gonna eat up (remains of) ukraine

I believe that Ukraine will soon be forced to consider a diplomatic solution. Yes, that probably means giving up Ukraine territory to Russia.

biden(s staff) already said he aint gonna negotiate without ukraine
ukraine already said they aint gonna negotiate while putin's in power
putin aint gonna leave in foreseeable future ...

The alternative is, to continuing waging a war in the futile attempt to regain lost ground, at the expense of ever more suffering.

It's a tough call, but one that will need to be made sooner or later.

... i think its ending up in something like a frozen conflict next year ... but this winter both sides will try to conquer (back) land

[fiksal]

thats why i said months ago: watch out this winter ... the bear aint gonna sleep, he gonna eat up (remains of) ukraine

So far the bear has been behaving as a drunk fascist. Not sure it can sober up.
I think you are betting on wrong people, morals, crowd to win. Especially since they won't see you as equal.

but you go for it, I think old Kievan Rus has quite a bit of a punch

[mr.WHO]

For now, it's Russian soldiers, officers and milbloggers who complain that orcs are not ready for winter.

JSDD tell me one thing - why do you think ANYBODY will make business with Russia after it will consciously make hundreds thousand cilivians freeze to death?

Chinese are already irritated, Indians are backing out of trade deals.
I can't imagine Iran/North Korea/Wenezuela backing out yet, but well, lets not underestimate sheer russian stupidity.

[chew-ie]

Well - in theory, if the world completely goes nuts and the right populists take over in Europe and Russia has enough of their own kind to trade with - until it devours them all.

In fact I'm rearranging my exit strategies for such a scenario.

[JSDD]

JSDD tell me one thing - why do you think ANYBODY will make business with Russia after it will consciously make hundreds thousand cilivians freeze to death?

i dont know ... maybe because everybody benefits from it ?
especially if both sides dont compete in certain domains ... russia has energy and materials, europe has technology and (advanced) industry

Chinese are already irritated ...

chimese have to heard, no morale, no rules, just making some bucks is their "motto" ... they'd even do business with the devil ^^


regarding trade in europe:
remember, the EU is a free trade zone, but politically far from "united"
if any country decides to not follow through those sanctions anymore, it's gonna gain a huge (economical) advantage to all the others
and this situation is not sustainable for a long time, sooner or later, the sanctions will fall

and even if they wont ... today we already have that situation with india, they buy cheap russian energy, and sell it back to europe for huge profitsss

It was a pleasure making profit with you. May profit go with you. *irony*

[mr.WHO]

i dont know ... maybe because everybody benefits from it ?
especially if both sides dont compete in certain domains ... russia has energy and materials, europe has technology and (advanced) industry

By your logic, US should have been continue to do business with Germany and let them enslave and gas people... because everybody benefits from it?

This short-sightedness flabbergasting.

Especially that Russia declared general hostily to whole West and laid claims and threads to most countries around.

THERE.IS.NO.COMING.BACK.TO.BUSINESS.AS.USUALL

[EGO_Aut]

Germany was forgiven, Russia will be forgiven. It's just a matter of money.

[clakclak]

Germany was forgiven, Russia will be forgiven. It's just a matter of money.

Germany was forgiven, but only after Göring, Ribbentrop, Keitel, Eichnann, Bormann and so on were killed. Sure, de-nazifaction should have been done more thoroughly (not necessarily with more executions but certainly with more prison sentences), but a minimum of accountability is necessary for change to be even possible.

[chew-ie]

So now it's exorzism what drives Russia into Ukraine.

https://tass.ru/politika/16150577 - "The apparatus of the Security Council of the Russian Federation considers it increasingly urgent to "de-atanize" Ukraine" (deepl.com translation of headline)
Of course, only available on .ru - not .com. As we already know it from RT.


Found @https://nitter.net/ruslantrad/status/15 ... 34568960#m

[fiksal]

Well - in theory, if the world completely goes nuts and the right populists take over in Europe and Russia has enough of their own kind to trade with - until it devours them all.

In fact I'm rearranging my exit strategies for such a scenario.

The fun part about the right wing / nationalists, is that while they may see favorably each other, they by definition see all foreigners as enemies. Devouring each other is indeed not out of line.

Exit strategies seems to be the new normal.

So now it's exorzism what drives Russia into Ukraine.

https://tass.ru/politika/16150577 - "The apparatus of the Security Council of the Russian Federation considers it increasingly urgent to "de-atanize" Ukraine" (deepl.com translation of headline)
Of course, only available on .ru - not .com. As we already know it from RT.


Found @https://nitter.net/ruslantrad/status/15 ... 34568960#m

Fascism, lunacy, and the Orthodox church had married awhile ago. I am glad it's more visible for all to see.

Germany was forgiven, Russia will be forgiven. It's just a matter of money.

Dont tease me. We can only hope for another Nuremberg.

I'd say, the Germany's way I'd say is preferred path for Russia to become a new country.

[felter]

The thing with Germany being forgiven, that was because most of the bad guys were either killed or jailed while they had strict rules to follow and obey, those rules existed for a long time after the war. This all came around because other nations forced these rules onto them through military victory in WW2. Russia has none of this, and none of it can be forced upon them. Even if the war ended tomorrow, Putin and his cronies would still be in charge and there is no way to round up and convict those responsible for the numerous war crimes against civilians and humanity. So there is no way in hell Russia is going to be forgiven any time soon, just look at the bit where they offered Germany more gas from the gas line going through Turkey the other week there and Germany told them to shove it where the sun don't shine. Right now I don't see anyway for Russia to have a future with the rest of the world, this is not going to change for a very long time, even after the fighting has ended, I am talking decades at least.

[Observe]

Right now I don't see anyway for Russia to have a future with the rest of the world, this is not going to change for a very long time, even after the fighting has ended, I am talking decades at least.

Everyone wants economic growth and abundant energy. Once the war winds down, demands for prosperity will overrule indignation, backroom deals will be made and Russia and the rest of the world will resume business, deceit and conflict as usual.

[Sovereign01]

Right now I don't see anyway for Russia to have a future with the rest of the world, this is not going to change for a very long time, even after the fighting has ended, I am talking decades at least.

Everyone wants economic growth and abundant energy. Once the war winds down, demands for prosperity will overrule indignation, backroom deals will be made and Russia and the rest of the world will resume business, deceit and conflict as usual.

If it winds down, which it shows no signs of doing.

[Warenwolf]

Everyone wants economic growth and abundant energy. Once the war winds down, demands for prosperity will overrule indignation, backroom deals will be made and Russia and the rest of the world will resume business, deceit and conflict as usual.

Bit of a sweeping statement'?
How we define economic growth is different for each of us and while abundant (and implicitly cheap) energy is always desirable, reliability is far more important for some while sustainability (whether we like it or not) is very important for others. What is the point of trade with Russia if they use that money to buy more guns and butter for next war? And cheap energy becomes very expensive if you never know when it is coming or not.


I can't predict the way this conflict will go three months from now on, let alone 10 years. Sure we can go business as usual or we can enter cold war status where there was certainly trade between blocks but nothing like post-cold war.

[mr.WHO]

So now it's exorzism what drives Russia into Ukraine.

https://tass.ru/politika/16150577 - "The apparatus of the Security Council of the Russian Federation considers it increasingly urgent to "de-atanize" Ukraine" (deepl.com translation of headline)
Of course, only available on .ru - not .com. As we already know it from RT.


Found @https://nitter.net/ruslantrad/status/15 ... 34568960#m

At this point, it's only a matter of time someone in Russia will take a look at Terra Invicta and starts to accuse Ukraine to be Servants aligned and working for Hydra.


Anyway, now seriously - the satanist and black magic narrative was used already around April/May, so it looks like even Russia is running out of propaganda.

[EGO_Aut]

There is news that the Netherlands, for example, has obtained 91 exceptions to sanctions to protect its industrial operations.
And BASF should turn its back on Germany and go to China.

I find that pretty intense if that's really true.

https://nltimes.nl/2022/10/24/netherlan ... ons-russia

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/ ... 022-10-26/

[chew-ie]

It's a free world - if a certain country is more appealing in terms of worker and human rights every company or individual can choose to relocate to that countey. But it has to be a choice and it is not possible to have all benefits there is.

In terms of going to China there should be other factors which have to be evaluated - including the state which can and will dictate the norm. (as they showed it)

Also, the free market will decide where to buy or sell. Like quite a few companies closed their shops / branches within Russia once Russia started the invasion of Ukraine. Even more so if consumer stop buying from companies which don't share their values.

[fiksal]

It's a free world - if a certain country is more appealing in terms of worker and human rights every company or individual can choose to relocate to that countey. But it has to be a choice and it is not possible to have all benefits there is.

In terms of going to China there should be other factors which have to be evaluated - including the state which can and will dictate the norm. (as they showed it)

Also, the free market will decide where to buy or sell. Like quite a few companies closed their shops / branches within Russia once Russia started the invasion of Ukraine. Even more so if consumer stop buying from companies which don't share their values.

precisely, in the countries where we can elect our government, it's up to us to be active and elect those that closer represent the country that you want to live in.


if one doesn't want to sponsor fascism, don't elect leaders that would turn on Swift system, for example


the world will move on without Russia just fine. Russia doesn't want to be part of this world anyways, so no loss there