Israel War

[fiksal]

I think the scale of what happened, the dead, the hostages, their planned executions - it's the kind of evil that needs to have a war declared on.

[burger1]

Gaza might been told to evacuate the Northern part of the Gaza strip. It's the part that's not next to Egypt and would push residents towards the Egypt border. There's tons of tunnels under Gaza and the Gaza/Egypt border. Israel might need to destroy the tunnels. Israel is still being attacked.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wi ... -103948930

US shipping arms to Israel.

More US naval battle groups on the way to Gaza.

Gaza strip is the size of a medium sized city. 365 km2

Militants are using fpv drones/bombs and weapons from Ukraine (likely seized from battles). Wagner/former Wagner?

People can generally survive 3 -11 days without water. Gaza residents should be able to stretch their water supply due to their location. The general rule of thumb is 3 days without water, 30 days without food but the water part never seems to apply.

[EGO_Aut]

Here is a fairly short, succinct and balanced summary of the conditions leading up to the current situation: Israelis and Palestinians are facing their moment of greatest danger since 1948 from historian Yuval Harari.

One things seems clear (to me) is that Hamas must be removed from governing of Gaza - which probably means a land assault into Gaza and increased carnage until that is accomplished. Any evolution of peace in the region cannot succeed as long as there are those bent on the destruction of Israel. For that matter, religious zealots on both sides, need to be removed from the equation when it comes to establishing policy.

A good article.

After this terror attack, i agree that Hamas should be removed or that they pay a price in changing leadership and agendas (east to west...).
But if Israel is too brutal, nothing will change. You have to offer your enemys a "carrot" to start dialog and peace. But what Israel is doing is genocid, there are still a lot of innocent ppl living in Gaza. How long will they (and even babies) survive without water?

[fiksal]

This might be splitting hairs, but is it total war or is Israel striking Hamas positions in densely populated areas?

Ideally, and possibly naively, all Palestinians should take out Hamas, and then someone could sit down and negotiate. Too naive I think

[clakclak]

An interesting sidenote on this conflict: France banned all pro-Palestinian protests. This obviously lead to some further conflicts during said protests.

[Falcrack]

I think the scale of what happened, the dead, the hostages, their planned executions - it's the kind of evil that needs to have a war declared on.

True, there must be a response, but it needs to be very clear what the aims of the war are. Is it the elimination of Hamas leadership? Regime change? Do the Israelis plan to try to rule Gaza and engage in nation building, attempting to exert their control over the area for the long term?

There needs to be clear, achievable, defined goals for a military operation like this. Without it, they risk getting stuck in an endless quagmire with no good way out, like the US in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The more I think about it, the more I think that the goal of Hamas was to encourage an Israeli overreaction. If in the process of taking revenge, Israel loses sympathy from other nations, they could wind up in a situation where their enemies are more numerous than before, more motivated to attack Israel, and better armed. In this sense, Israel seems prepared to play right into Hamas' hands.

[fiksal]

could be, it seems Hamas is also hoping for a wide Muslims world vs Israel war.

I agree that Israel should spell out what's coming next. What's the plan for stabilizing the region after. It should be clear who is versus who here.

While Hamas maybe hoped for over reaction, I think it naively thought that they can hold it back with threats of executions while the bigger war is being prepared.

[mr.WHO]

It will be "3-days Special Operation TM" - except not like the one in Ukraine, but the one in Nagorno Karabach - 150'000 Armenians got exiled in a matter of just a few days and the World barrely noticed...

...I bet Israel noticed.

[fiksal]

kind of?

Armenians aren't Hamas though

[mr.WHO]

kind of?

Armenians aren't Hamas though

That make it even worse for Palestinians.
Still, I recall Azerbeijan started their "special operation" due to "terrorist activity" as well.

I fear, that the "Dead Babies" story from yesterday is a groundwork to justify the Gaza expulsion and 2 US Carrier Groups will guarantee nobody will interrupt.
The only question is how Egypt will react, since they are the only exit.

[fiksal]

kidnappings by Hamas seem real enough and reported by other journalists, so are the torched village(s). Not sure if anyone else confirmed the actual number of dead and injured. Numbers are from 700 to 1000 are reported.

while numbers matter, total wars are fought for fewer victims

didn't Egypt just refuse to take refugees? pretty clear message

[notaterran]

This has the potential to even eclipse Russian atrocities in Ukraine, let's hope this doesn't turn into a massive calamity.

[mr.WHO]

didn't Egypt just refuse to take refugees? pretty clear message

Can Egypt stop 2.5 milion people running away from Gaza?
How? Shooting at them? or at Israel?


Sadly, this might be Hamas endgame.
Israel will think it will finnaly deal with Gaza problem, but will ruin own reputation.
Hamas can sacrifice Gaza as long as West Bank remain unscatched.

[fiksal]

good questions

This has the potential to even eclipse Russian atrocities in Ukraine, let's hope this doesn't turn into a massive calamity.

so we must remain vigilant and not lessen crimes of one versus another

[EGO_Aut]

didn't Egypt just refuse to take refugees? pretty clear message

Can Egypt stop 2.5 milion people running away from Gaza?
How? ........


Sadly, this might be Hamas endgame.
Israel will think it will finnaly deal with Gaza problem, but will ruin own reputation.
Hamas can sacrifice Gaza as long as West Bank remain unscatched.

“Liberate Gaza from Hamas” is exactly what the Israelis did not want. Gaza only exists so that there aren't too many Palestinians in the West Bank. But ethnic cleansing is actually the only option left for the Israelis in the West Bank, and not just since the events of last week (which, to the chagrin of the Israeli right, came straight from Gaza). At the end 1+ mil flees to Egypt, not to West Bank - not all will come back.

[mr.WHO]

US is aparenly talking with Egypt to open crossing from Gaza - we are getting one step closer to an ethnic cleansing.

Edit: It seem they are working on crossing only for foreign nationals (mainly US citizens) from Gaza to Egypt.

[JSDD]

Can anybody imagine israel getting a palestinian dude as president?
// just playing headgames, "comparing" the US under obama and todays israel

As long as this is something as unrealistic as a flying cow, israel will not have peace ...
And as long as palestinians dont rule over themselves, they wont let have their occupiers / "rulers" have their peace

this conflict exists for a while and isnt about to go away.
wheather it escalates or not just depends on foreign interference ...

[EGO_Aut]

BREAKING: UN General Assembly ADOPTS resolution on “protection of civilians and upholding legal and humanitarian obligations” on the ongoing Gaza crisis FOR: 120 AGAINST: 14 ABSTAIN: 45

Against list of shame:
Israel, USA, Austria, Hungary, Croatia, Czechoslovakia, Guatemala, Marshall Isl., Micronesia, Nauru, Papa New G., Paraguay, Fidji, Tonga

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142847?reload12

[Cpt.Jericho]

The Israel gouvernment will still bomb the hell out of Gaza - it's not like any country would put sanctions on them no matter how many innocent civilians there get killed. It's not like they consider them actual human.

[Observe]

It's not like they consider them actual human.

With emotions in the region as high as they are, we cannot expect either Israelis or Palestinians to muster anything but hatred for each other. It is up to the rest of the world who is not so personally involved, to push for conciliation and to work toward a mutual justice for both sides. Continued denial of the rights for Palestinians to live their lives as free people, is a perpetual pressure cooker that guarantees future tragedy. Israel cannot enjoy the fruits of a homeland, while denying Palestinians a seat at the table.

Israel has a right to defend itself, and Palestinians have a right to lash out against tyranny.