[X3LU] Mayhem 3.21b

Joubarbe · Post by **Joubarbe** » Fri, 10. Mar 17, 17:38

Don't forget IDN, it was designed to make things a bit easier. Make good purpose-oriented networks, a Sanctuary in each of them, and your fears of death will be appeased.

The Cuban Nightmare · Post by **The Cuban Nightmare** » Sat, 11. Mar 17, 06:35

Would you mind taking a look at this example then to help me troubleshoot?

Sector 1: Produces goods used in equipment (Meatsteaks etc)
Sector 2: Produces equipment
Sector 3: MLCC dock

IDN 1: Sector 1's stations and sanctuary
IDN 2: Sector 2's stations and sanctuary + freighters set to use Sanctuary 1 as source?
MLCC Sector = Freighters using Sanctuary 2 as a source for goods

I guess you could expand this further and have sectors which produce only 1 or 2 goods which are unloaded to a sanctuary and then have a freighter take those to the next sector where they are transformed into goods? Looks like you can only use small ships as freighters so any TL runs would have to be done manually.

I'm at the stage where I have a loop for ships and one for stations, but need to start getting equipment produced. The main thing that I noticed is that invading sectors is incredibly tough due to the missile spam I encounters, so realistically I'm going to need a M7M or a few M8 for anti-missile duty. Since my sectors are spread out at the beginning, I'm trying to figure out a good way to set up a robust production chain to at least get missile production up so that I have a force multiplier before I can produce and equip ships en masse.

Jonzac · Post by **Jonzac** » Sat, 11. Mar 17, 07:11

Here's what I did....and yes you will produce A LOT of TS class ships. I went and beat up an IndustrialTECH Baldric when I couldn't find an abandoned Mistral on my second run.

Create 3 Sell Dock Agents and 3 Buy Agents for your Sanctuary and one TS as a reaper. (I use the satellite mod to dispatch a reaper to sectors to scoop up wares). That gets some cash flowing.

I then use my first sector for a SSP and some food factories. Right now I have a 200MJ shield, 25MJ shield 2 cahoona and 2 cattle ranch.

I have IDN suppliers with the Sanc, 2 bakeries and 2 cattle ranch...I use 2 suppliers and use couriers to pull the meatsteaks to the sanctuary.

I then set up another network with 200MJ shield and assign 1-2 IDN Suppliers. I have a 25MJ network with sancturary and factory only (Same as 200MJ) and I swap the IDN TS's between the two depending on what I need....(2 cahoonas will run either factory but not both). I use a freightor to pull shields

The SSP is its own network with Sanctuary and SSP with 1 IDN. Courier to pull ecells back to Sanctuary.

-----------
2nd get a TL...Attack an Orca, strip the shield scan and run away. After building I get the Plutarch Tractor beam to move asteroids around.

Unk Alpha claimed. I make a research station (High chance of breakthrough) and some ore mines. I put the 2 ore mines and Sancturary in network with 3 IDN suppliers. I use a courier to visit the ore mines and pull ore back to Sanc....Repeat with silicon

Eventually had a Xenon J and 5 Hyperions I had scanned and built. Took over Albion Alpha...built a HEPT which requires 2 cahoona and cattle ranch. Had room for 3 more factories...made a wasp factory with 2 soyeries and I buy the soja beans.

I have Xenon 534 as well and it is filled up with a self-sustaining SSP loop...1 SSP, 3 crystal fabs, 3 cahoona and 3 cattle ranch....runs with 3 IDN Suppliers.

I put that SSPs into other loops as needed.

sirius5 · Post by **sirius5** » Sat, 11. Mar 17, 13:46

Quick Question - off Topic partly:

Factory - Ware - Default Templates

Made my self a heavy set of new Shields (17)- still working on the coresponding pacifiers to those shields. Got em up in Tships (not balanced at all) and now im at a loss on how to f***ing add Factories for those as the Tfactory allows me to create a Station but i cant neither define Res. nor Prod. for it and im not to crazy into the idea to add them completely manually to the verse (high bug potential esp. if u f*** around with minerals).

How does Mayhem handle Weapon, Station and Shield Blueprints ? As far as i know you have all Shields and Fac. already researched at game start.

Sirrobert · Post by **Sirrobert** » Sat, 11. Mar 17, 15:39

Personally I just put ALL stations in a single IDN (and all end production stations in a IDN for pickup and delivery to a sanctuary), throw a bunch of TS ships against it, and let them figure it out.

Works good enough.

Joubarbe · Post by **Joubarbe** » Sat, 11. Mar 17, 17:03

I would recommend to group IDN networks depending on the resource category they target. Food, Minerals, Energy, Missiles, Weapons, Crafting resources... You won't have any particular benefits from grouping them by sector (they auto-refuel).

Jonzac · Post by **Jonzac** » Sat, 11. Mar 17, 21:22

I started that, but for me having all 10 stations bunched closely together allowed two IDN Mistrals to handle all the logistics...and more importantly I didn't have to have the crystals or credits to buy the Quantum Jumpdrive module to speed them up.

Biggest...and best thing that Mayhem does is force me to plan ahead for my production capability and have them ready

VincentTH · Post by **VincentTH** » Sun, 12. Mar 17, 19:03

Jonzac wrote:I started that, but for me having all 10 stations bunched closely together allowed two IDN Mistrals to handle all the logistics...and more importantly I didn't have to have the crystals or credits to buy the Quantum Jumpdrive module to speed them up.

Biggest...and best thing that Mayhem does is force me to plan ahead for my production capability and have them ready

Yeah IDN is great, but the requirement of Station Agent Software is a very expensive requirement.

Jonzac · Post by **Jonzac** » Sun, 12. Mar 17, 20:02

I agree. That's why I made getting a fleet of 25 M3 miners in unknown allpha a priority. Makes a big difference for that stuff.

As with all things Mayhem. Patience is the key

Diggz · Post by **Diggz** » Sun, 12. Mar 17, 20:37

Currently, I'm about 20h (including SETA time) into my Mayhem campaign.

Totally don't need SCHs, this is actually a lot of fun just playing simcity.

Currently, I'm having a lot of trouble sourcing sufficient Ore. I own both Omega and Alpha, and am working on conquering the xenon sector beside Alpha. I have just finally started to pump out Springblossoms and equipping them properly as my main force; currently only up to 5 though.

As for other ships, I've 21 stations, with two sanctuaries. Primary focusses are on construction materials and shielding; I tried to produce my own mobile drilling systems after the Teladi got pissed off at me however the default production time for guns is painfully slow.

How can I source enough MDS? 2/hr from one medium production factory is nothing, fortunately I have sufficient terran rep to purchase MAMLs for my Springblossoms.

I think im gonna need to be disassembling stations and restructuring in order to specialize certain sectors, but first I need more sectors.

So what is a good strategy for logistics? I'm currently in more of a web-style setup, where each sector delivers to its own sanctuary, which in turn delivers to my primary sanctuary. The plan is to conquer the neighbouring xenon sector with a mob of Springblossoms, and build an MLCC dock there to act as my primary logistics locus/shipbuilding suite.

This mod is great, thanks.

hqz · Post by **hqz** » Sun, 12. Mar 17, 22:24

Jonzac wrote:I agree. That's why I made getting a fleet of 25 M3 miners in unknown allpha a priority. Makes a big difference for that stuff.

I'm curious about your mining fleet setup. Do you assign them to a TL in the same sector and then have a TS to do transfer crystals from the TL to a sanctuary? Or do you just assign them directly to a sanctuary and let them jump sectors when they're full?

I haven't run any tests myself and I've always used approach #2 so far because I was too lazy to setup a more complex system. But now that I realize how important mining crystals is, I might reconsider.

Jonzac · Post by **Jonzac** » Sun, 12. Mar 17, 23:03

I have a TL and 25 miners assigned to that ship as their homebase. Then commanded the TL to fleet mine.

Yes I have a courier run from TL to my main Sanctuary with crystals first, then minerals, then ore then silicon. You have to make sure the courier picks up enough eCells at Sanctuary to make the jump there and back.

Works really well. Expensive to set up, but saves money long term

hqz · Post by **hqz** » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 00:11

Jonzac wrote:I have a TL and 25 miners assigned to that ship as their homebase. Then commanded the TL to fleet mine.

Yes I have a courier run from TL to my main Sanctuary with crystals first, then minerals, then ore then silicon. You have to make sure the courier picks up enough eCells at Sanctuary to make the jump there and back.

Works really well. Expensive to set up, but saves money long term

Thanks for the details. I had forgotten about the "fleet mine" command actually. I'll try to set this up next then.

The Cuban Nightmare · Post by **The Cuban Nightmare** » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 05:35

Diggz wrote:Currently, I'm about 20h (including SETA time) into my Mayhem campaign.

Totally don't need SCHs, this is actually a lot of fun just playing simcity.

Currently, I'm having a lot of trouble sourcing sufficient Ore. I own both Omega and Alpha, and am working on conquering the xenon sector beside Alpha. I have just finally started to pump out Springblossoms and equipping them properly as my main force; currently only up to 5 though.

As for other ships, I've 21 stations, with two sanctuaries. Primary focusses are on construction materials and shielding; I tried to produce my own mobile drilling systems after the Teladi got pissed off at me however the default production time for guns is painfully slow.

How can I source enough MDS? 2/hr from one medium production factory is nothing, fortunately I have sufficient terran rep to purchase MAMLs for my Springblossoms.

I think im gonna need to be disassembling stations and restructuring in order to specialize certain sectors, but first I need more sectors.

So what is a good strategy for logistics? I'm currently in more of a web-style setup, where each sector delivers to its own sanctuary, which in turn delivers to my primary sanctuary. The plan is to conquer the neighbouring xenon sector with a mob of Springblossoms, and build an MLCC dock there to act as my primary logistics locus/shipbuilding suite.

This mod is great, thanks.

You will be doing a lot of tearing down. I recommend using the Plutarch device to merge asteroids and get more out of a few mines. The other thing is figuring out power production - you can buy crystals from trade depots until you have loops, but that can be expensive. Still not a bad idea until you have more space.

Space is the big issue here - to produce equipment for Kvasirs I determined that I would need 4 stations (starburst, 2 photon arrays and a 1g shield complex). I put together an excel sheet and it seems each factory needs 2 food factories (bofu for example) which then need 2 resource factories (bogas). It's easy to see how this rapidly spirals out of control. I am using be crystal free SPP script ($50mm one time cost) to reduce the insanity a bit.

I ultimately came to the conclusion that you should have networks of goods (one sector for bofu etc) and then have another loop which is all the equipment factories pulling resources from a single sanctuary and returning the finished equipment there. This is a massive endeavor, but you can use jump beacons and quantum devices to reduce travel time.

I kinda got stuck because I made enemies with the Terrans and ATF with the intention of using their ships, but you need tons of rep with the corporations before you can buy capital ship equipment from them. I'm considering using xenon frigates as a stop gap so that I can buy the equipment from the teladi to give me enough power to clear a few more sectors. It's funny because producing ships and stations isn't too bad, but weapons and equipment are tough due to the amount needed and the underlying infrastructure required.

I would also look into boarding - I captured a few ships which are the core of my fleet right now (Woden, Kyoto, Agamemnon, Hoshi, skirnir, Patroculous). I built a few Kvasirs, but can't equip them sufficiently to start phasing out my rag-tag fleet. Might want to ensure you can buy equipment and produce hulls which can mount the stuff you have access to. Once you have more space you'll be a lot more flexible.

Note that you can't actually have a MLCC dock in the same sector as a sanctuary so you'll likely need a military sector.

Jonzac · Post by **Jonzac** » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 06:03

Ya, there seem to be two ways of setting up logistics.

1. Put the same factory types in the same sector...which is nice and easy for organization

2. Put whole loops into a sector.

I've got with #2 for a couple of reasons. First, it cuts down on the number of IDN suppliers and I need and then they don't need quantum jump extensions as well. They just sail inbetween the 8-10 stations all clumped together. The second reason is the OCV. If they do take out a sector, I will lose the production of ONE item, but if they took out my main food sector...I would lose the production of ALL my items. Plus, you have to have jump beacons (or build around the middle point of the sector) to pull it off.

But that's what's so awesome about the game...no really wrong way to play it....unless you like the Paranid....that's just wrong.

The Cuban Nightmare · Post by **The Cuban Nightmare** » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 06:12

Jonzac wrote:Ya, there seem to be two ways of setting up logistics.

1. Put the same factory types in the same sector...which is nice and easy for organization

2. Put whole loops into a sector.

I've got with #2 for a couple of reasons. First, it cuts down on the number of IDN suppliers and I need and then they don't need quantum jump extensions as well. They just sail inbetween the 8-10 stations all clumped together. The second reason is the OCV. If they do take out a sector, I will lose the production of ONE item, but if they took out my main food sector...I would lose the production of ALL my items. Plus, you have to have jump beacons (or build around the middle point of the sector) to pull it off.

But that's what's so awesome about the game...no really wrong way to play it....unless you like the Paranid....that's just wrong.

This is a good point. The only thing I would add is that the small sectors basically mean that you often cannot fit a whole loop in a sector (for a missile complex you need 5 factories in addition to mines and power). If you have a sector with room for 8 factories, you can't put in research and a sanctuary unless you import energy and minerals which makes thing really annoying to scale. For the OCV stuff, well we will cross that bridge when we get there.

I haven't decided what my ultimate structure will be, though I lean towards local loops for ships and stations and then distributed for equipment.

VincentTH · Post by **VincentTH** » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 19:58

The Cuban Nightmare wrote:
You will be doing a lot of tearing down. I recommend using the Plutarch device to merge asteroids and get more out of a few mines.

Don't merge the roids. You can use the Plutarch device to move asteroids with no problem, but as reported earlier in this thread, merging them would cause problem. I don't know if that was fixed with 2.08.

hanuland · Post by **hanuland** » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 22:14

VincentTH wrote:
The Cuban Nightmare wrote:
You will be doing a lot of tearing down. I recommend using the Plutarch device to merge asteroids and get more out of a few mines.
Don't merge the roids. You can use the Plutarch device to move asteroids with no problem, but as reported earlier in this thread, merging them would cause problem. I don't know if that was fixed with 2.08.

I have confirmed that it's no problem with 2.08.

The Cuban Nightmare · Post by **The Cuban Nightmare** » Tue, 14. Mar 17, 02:29

hanuland wrote:
VincentTH wrote:
The Cuban Nightmare wrote:
You will be doing a lot of tearing down. I recommend using the Plutarch device to merge asteroids and get more out of a few mines.
Don't merge the roids. You can use the Plutarch device to move asteroids with no problem, but as reported earlier in this thread, merging them would cause problem. I don't know if that was fixed with 2.08.
I have confirmed that it's no problem with 2.08.

I started playing mayhem on 2.08 and have had no issues so I'm inclined to agree. Also, there are tons of good asteroids in Xenon 596 so you could port those.

As an update, I captured a cyclops last night - absolute beast of a ship but slow as molasses. I ultimately paid a fortune to round out its armament with IBLs and am slowly conquering the omicron channel which is mostly paranid in my game. My flagship is a Kyoto with 14 Skirons which can do a ton of damage and that's given me a good core to work with. If you need to destroy stations, I recommend a wing of corvettes as they can move fast and you can get a decent number fairly quickly. The Cyclops is my dedicated station destroyer because OOS battle is faster with large guns. I found that the Paranid sent large fleets after me at first, but I was able to beat the fleet and only had to face off smaller forces after. I assume that I beat the current forces they had available at the time, but expect more later.

I'm about 4 in-game days through my current play through and have around 7 sectors which feels like I have enough to actually start doing some decent building. When do you guys feel like you have enough to start producing large ships and equipment? Almost all of my income is from bounties and selling raided goods (PSA if you destroy a station while IS, they drop goods. I got a good amount of cash from selling goods from ststions destroyed by the OCV). I definitely wouldn't be nearly as close without a lot of boarding though - most of my fleet was stolen from others. I'm curious if you guys play without boarding, feels like it would take forever to get going.

I was looking around and noted that the Terran arrow has 8 gamma ray cannons which I assume offsets the terrible speed (117m/s). The guns are expensive, but if you get enough infrastructure up, I could see a fleet of those operating from carriers as a very dangerous force. Anyone have any carrier fighters they like (guns only - missiles will take too much time to set up)?

Joubarbe · Post by **Joubarbe** » Thu, 16. Mar 17, 17:11

The Cuban Nightmare wrote: When do you guys feel like you have enough to start producing large ships and equipment?

When you feel the inextinguishable thirst for power in your throat.

...

To all of you, I read all your reports with attention. It's always interesting to see how you play this mod and see the differences. But there's something that bothers me for some time now, and it's about weapon and missile production. Besides, the logistics is also a bit too heavy to manage, and I'd like to fix those two problems with one solution.

As I cannot add more contextual UI elements to vanilla menus (a real shame, because the whole thing would need a revamp), I came to the conclusion that a not-so-bad idea would be to add weapon/missile production to Sanctuaries.

Three benefits from this:

I could adjust the speed at which they are built (and this really needs to speed up).
All weapon and missile complexes would be removed, giving more space for other stations.
Logistics would be easier to manage.

You would still need to research lasers and missiles before going to production.
I'm still not sure whether to include Shield production as well in this process.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

[X3LU] Mayhem 3.21b