Logitech Smooth Scroll Mouse

[strude]

Would it be possible to implement the thrust control to take advantage of the Smooth Scroll feature of some Logitech mice? It would be fantastic to have smooth control over thrust, rather than the mouse wheel jumping in about 3 increments over the thrust range.

Regards

Simon

[Alan Phipps]

Have you set the mouse wheel vertical increment to 1 in Control Panel, Hardware & Sound, Mouse, Wheel ?

Just in passing, I also know that the more recent graphics drivers when using some older AMD graphics cards made a bit of a mess of fine menu/interface control using the mouse wheel in-game and causing some users to reinsert an older version of an AMD driver dll.

[strude]

Have you set the mouse wheel vertical increment to 1 in Control Panel, Hardware & Sound, Mouse, Wheel ?

Of course I haven't. That would make perfect sense, which is well outside the scope of the day I've had today. Thanks for the tip

Just in passing, I also know that the more recent graphics drivers when using some older AMD graphics cards made a bit of a mess of fine menu/interface control using the mouse wheel in-game and causing some users to reinsert an older version of an AMD driver dll.

Older by how much? As in my card age? I have noticed that the Skunk tends to drop to zero speed sometimes, although I think that's a slow down due to turning (does that sound like something that is implemented?). Only really notice it in dogfights, when I start getting shot at. I very rarely use the mouse wheel to scroll menus though.

[Loltak]

Would it be possible to implement the thrust control to take advantage of the Smooth Scroll feature of some Logitech mice? It would be fantastic to have smooth control over thrust, rather than the mouse wheel jumping in about 3 increments over the thrust range.

Regards

Simon

Perhaps Better Speed Control could be what you search? Cf. my signature.

Increment are down to 5% from 20%.
As it's a xml file you can tweak it easily.

[Alan Phipps]

@ strude: No the AMD driver mouse wheel scroll issue with AMD HD 5xxx-7xxx series cards was more when using the wheel to scroll in a menu list, the screen would often stutter or mini-freeze and then you find you have gone down five menu items say instead of just the one you wanted.

[donzi]

My take on this is that precision ship velocity control is reserved for game controllers in XR.

Mouse wheel increment = 1 with a generic 3-button scroller mouse yields very slight difference compared to the default windows setting of 3.

Keyboard (x/z) is super fast.. I have to peck at them if wanting to get just a tiny change.

For the skunk it's not really that big a deal 98% of the time.. Drones though, or close quarter manuvering in the skunk really suffer though with the lack of precision K+M ship control.

TBH, I just got used to the way things work.. I should really re-examine the possibility of getting the keyboard controls for "space" working smooth.

[strude]

@ strude: No the AMD driver mouse wheel scroll issue with AMD HD 5xxx-7xxx series cards was more when using the wheel to scroll in a menu list, the screen would often stutter or mini-freeze and then you find you have gone down five menu items say instead of just the one you wanted.

Ah, yeah I think I know that problem, but I find it happens when I have the scroll wheel switched to segmented scroll, not smooth. Happens a lot when scroll websites, but I've not seen it happen in a game. Didn't know it was a AMD driver conflict either. Might have to check this out further, but I can't find anything about it on Google.

My take on this is that precision ship velocity control is reserved for game controllers in XR

I have an XBox 360 controller I bought specifically for this game when it was released. I find the targeting setup in controller mode to be awful, but there isn't enough buttons on the controller to add the targeting functions unless the game can be changed to respond to button combinations. Plus I kinda suck at controller anyway Maybe I'll try a controller/keyboard combination. Move the dogfight controls to the controller and the less intense functions to the wireless keyboard...

Perhaps Better Speed Control could be what you search?

I'll certainly take a look at that one. Hasn't seen an update for a while, so can you confirm if it works with V3.53? (EDIT, just noticed the crafting mark mod is yours, that good to go under current game version too?)

[Loltak]

Yes it's work like a charm
No problem with the (only):) 3 mods I use

[Solomon Short]

One advantage to "Better Speed Control" is you can edit the "Parameters.xml" file to change the number of increments on the throttle for mouse control (I use 0.1 for 10, but I think the default was 0.05 for 20).

[strude]

Better Speed Control is really good. Thanks for pointing me in that direction.

[donzi]

@strude

I too bought an xbox controller. I actually got it for some console ports I was playing which had mini-games that switched into a platformer/side-scroller style mode.. One of the Batman games I think.

Seemed to be okay but ironically I'd already got the hang of WASD and the controller became more for testing more or less. Mostly has collected dust though.

A very few things I run into I guess the controller may help with, if they are very simple.

I am extremely poor with the xbox controller. I doubt that I'll ever use it enough to undo/re-wire by head to KB+Mouse.. I just have too many years of that preventing me from associating the numerous switches on the xbox controller to anything which makes sense.

..now a yoke or steering wheel -- entirely different. Love those when implemented well.

[strude]

@strude

I too bought an xbox controller. I actually got it for some console ports I was playing which had mini-games that switched into a platformer/side-scroller style mode.. One of the Batman games I think.

Seemed to be okay but ironically I'd already got the hang of WASD and the controller became more for testing more or less. Mostly has collected dust though.

A very few things I run into I guess the controller may help with, if they are very simple.

I am extremely poor with the xbox controller. I doubt that I'll ever use it enough to undo/re-wire by head to KB+Mouse.. I just have too many years of that preventing me from associating the numerous switches on the xbox controller to anything which makes sense.

..now a yoke or steering wheel -- entirely different. Love those when implemented well.

That's me exactly. I really enjoyed Alien Isolate with the controller though, probably because there is no combat as such, so intense situations is more just heading in the right direction. I might give Rebirth a go again with the controller, thought just thinking about it, the left trigger finger pain might make me reconsider. Maybe it I set the bumpers to speed up/down and the triggers for weapons, one button for target nearest, the rest for whatever I need to do to get from place to place, and leave the more involved menus to the radial menu or wireless keyboard... Might work. But then I'd have to find that ol' HDMI cable too from where ever it got thrown 12 months ago...

I always played previous X titles with a joystick, but I just couldn't get in the feel with a joystick for Rebirth. Just seemed too different, so I've been using mouse/key so far.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I have an X Box controller and think it has absolutely no place anywhere near a PC game... it is possibly worse than rubber dog dung from Hong Kong

And the less I say about the default controller set up for Game Pads in X-Rebirth the better it will be for everyone concerned.

Personally, I am currently using a G19s KBD paired with a G700s MSE and find the combo acceptable and workable even without smooth throttle control.

However, since I have been playing certain games more frequently I have decided to invest in an X52 Std since these controllers and their Pro cousins seem to be raved on about a fair amount. We will see if I think the controller is up to the hype.

[donzi]

Hehe, I had to search to confirm your logitech collection. I quit caring about logitech back when it was still coming of age when mice were their only products. Still serves me well today.

There are a few options I consider but deck legend kb and some cheapo $5-10 mouse does well. I did find some nice mice a while back when I last made the hunt for a new quality mouse. I miss them.

The deck has a nice footprint. While perhaps the same switches can be found in other kb I don't really want all the ergo and gizmo features.

I've bought too many $100 mice which were not up to the duty cycle I pace them through. So the cheapo optical 3-button really fairs okay. Been using this one for about 2 years. Lasted longer than several $100 mice.

Also worth note, I insist on wired peripherals. While USB will suffice, my preference is for old school mini din connectors. The side effect is that it tends to eliminate a lot the trash products quite quickly.

..problem is though, I can't ever get what I'd prefer locally on a pinch so I'll often snag two at a time or more so I don't have to fuss with it later. lol

[strude]

I might give Rebirth a go again with the controller, thought just thinking about it, the left trigger finger pain might make me reconsider. Maybe it I set the bumpers to speed up/down and the triggers for weapons, one button for target nearest, the rest for whatever I need to do to get from place to place, and leave the more involved menus to the radial menu or wireless keyboard... Might work.

Well that idea turned out to be a bit of a dud. The thing I don't like about controller mode is that it never keeps it's target, just auto targets whatever is in front of it. Makes it very difficult to track an enemy, as the one I'm after always changes as soon as it dodges and something else flies past.

With controller mode disabled, I can use the targeting functions to manually select my target, but the radial menus don't respond to the controller, so I can select a dock (or NPC in FPS) and activate the interaction menu, but I can't select any of the options.

Seems I'm railroaded into using one method or the other.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

I have just finished an initial controller setup session with an X52 Std and have left "Gamepad Mode" on for all controllers/joysticks and not noticed a big issue with targeting. It seems to only auto target if you do not currently have a target lock (I have the upper hat on the stick set to targeting control).

Where the radial options are concerned I have configured the toggle switches on the base of the controller for them.

The X52 will take some further tweaking of the configuration and general "getting used to" but I have been reasonably impressed with it so far. The stick feels lighter than ideal though, I prefer the feel of the Logitech Wingman Extreme 3D Pro on that score but the ergonomics of the X52 are better than the Wingman IMO.

I am undecided as to if smooth throttle control input is actually necessary for X-Rebirth and after playing a bit of ED I am convinced that where analogue throttle control is concerned half range throttle control (0 to max +ve/-ve thrust) with a toggle button for forward/reverse thrust is better than a full range throttle... or at least desirable as a configuration option.

[strude]

I have just finished an initial controller setup session with an X52 Std and have left "Gamepad Mode" on for all controllers/joysticks and not noticed a big issue with targeting. It seems to only auto target if you do not currently have a target lock (I have the upper hat on the stick set to targeting control).

Hmm, maybe it plays differently with controller to joystick, as in not actually related to "gamepad mode", but just dependant on what you're actually using. When I was testing it out, I had targeting buttons configured on the controller, but it would auto target whatever was in front. If nothing was in front it would lose an active target all together. Admittedly, my testing wasn't with an actual enemy, just targeting points on stations and other random craft.

Where the radial options are concerned I have configured the toggle switches on the base of the controller for them.

I'll have to take another look at the set up options to see if there is something I can configure to a stick. I just assumed the radial controls would work as normal with the control, so didn't look for something specific that might not be set by default with the initial controller setup I started with.

I am undecided as to if smooth throttle control input is actually necessary for X-Rebirth ...

My specific request for the smooth scroll wasn't so much to allow smooth thrust control as such. The problem was that using the mouse wheel to control thrust had only about three stopping points between zero and max, so controlling thrust was pretty limited. Using the Better Speed Control mod allows me to change the gap between stopping points, which is pretty much exactly what I wanted. The controller set up I have been fiddling with I have +ve/-ve on the right and left bumpers respectively, and with the mod as default settings, gives very nice control. I have a button for engine stop (i.e. exit highway), but not enough for direct max speed.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@strude: WRT target lock, If I just flew around and did not manually select targets or hardpoints then the auto-target lock would just change iaw what I was pointing at but as soon as I manually targeted something target lock would stay on that target.

I am not sure if that feature is dependent on the "Gamepad Mode" setting but it does seem to make sense to me.

[strude]

@Roger

How are you going about manually targeting an object? When I have nothing selected and something moves in front of me, it targets automatically, which is what I think you are describing also. If I press the button I have mapped to "Target object", it doesn't seem to do anything (since the object is already the current target). If I then move around so that the targeted object is no longer in front of me, it will go to "no target" or target something else.

Doesn't seem to be any way that I can manually target something. Perhaps I'll try using the keyboard to "target next" away from the auto targeted object, and see if it locks on to that object. It won't really be a solution, as there isn't enough buttons on the controller to map all the targeting functions, but at least I might be able to see if I can get the same result you are getting.

Doesn't look like there is much I can use to get the radial menus working in non-controller mode either. Best I might be able to do is map each number option to a different button on the controller. I fear that will mostly be unworkable as I think I'd mostly forget what button was what option number and end up selecting the wrong option most of the time.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

@strude: Simples - I map/remap keys/buttons in the Controller settings and use them.

I don't mean to be flippant or dismissive but it really was that simple for me.