[X3:AP] What's the best way to cap a Colossus Hauler or Valhalla?

[MarvinTheMartian]

Update, I'm beginning to suspect what allowed me to capture 2 Valhallas consecutively a few times was a glitch. As I said, I had been unable to capture Valhallas for a few appearances because my Terran rank hadn't recovered enough.

When you say "unable" do you mean the boarding attempt failed or that you're trying to capture two without trashing your Terran/ATF rep completely? I've saved with two Valhallas in CoL, a Tokyo and 2 Osakas plus all their escorts. I plan to capture both Valhallas, the Tokyo and 1 Osaka (the other has HPD) - and to do them all simultaneously! I have enough marines so I'm going to buy a Cobra as my 4th M7M and do them all at once never done more than two ships at once before so this could be interesting, or disastrous!

Also, thanks to the Adv. Sat. in CoL, I've so many Valhalla appearances in CoL that I don't think they're "rare" at all.

I'm thinking the same thing, it's not that they don't appear very often it's that they don't stay for very long. I still don't know why they're not attacking my Adv Sat but I'm going to make the most of it while they're not

Both times that I nabbed a Valhalla, I did it by sneaking up on it from behind, waiting for the much faster Aegirs escorting to be far enough in front that they weren't going to be a problem, so I was able to swipe it from right under their noses.

Was this in CoL? the 2 times I've seen them they've both been sitting at 0m/s, same with Aegirs. I just missile spam the escorts and then board the Valhalla, they are actually the easiest targets to board I've found, the PSP are not going to hit the pods and they're so slow I can relax about the timing of the op - the shield regen isn't too fast either. bit of an anticlimax really...

The ships is one of those Awesome but impractical ones, that makes a nice trophy more than anything else

True. I will use 1 as my flagship and the rest seem perfectly designed for OOS defence or perhaps even OOS combat

[Jimmy C]

When you say "unable" do you mean the boarding attempt failed or that you're trying to capture two without trashing your Terran/ATF rep completely?

The second. That's the only thing that discourages me from a double cap. Restoring rep after a cap is time-consuming. Negative rep adds annoying on top of that.

I've saved with two Valhallas in CoL, a Tokyo and 2 Osakas plus all their escorts. I plan to capture both Valhallas, the Tokyo and 1 Osaka (the other has HPD) - and to do them all simultaneously! I have enough marines so I'm going to buy a Cobra as my 4th M7M and do them all at once never done more than two ships at once before so this could be interesting, or disastrous!

If by simultaneously, you really actually mean completing their captures within seconds of each other, good luck. I've done simultaneous captures on mission-spawned ships many times, sequential capture is preferable when it's an option.

There are two big sticking points. First is any disaster on one of the boardings will cause you to reload for all the boardings. Second is, if you are the type to reload for better loot, you might not have time to check the loot on one ship before the next reaches the critical save point. So you save when the first reaches the critical point, then save again as that ship goes green. This will serve as the critical point save for the second ship. Only after this do you check the loot on the first ship. Not satisfied? Load the first of the two and repeat. Satisfied? Use the second for the loot on the second ship.

I try to leave a ten second gap between boarding completions if at all possible, gives enough time to go over the freight list of the first ship, but sometimes, it just isn't possible.

I still don't know why they're not attacking my Adv Sat but I'm going to make the most of it while they're not

I think the hostile reception may be randomly set too. My last Adv Sat in CoL lasted 3 Valhalla appearances, the current one hasn't been set upon for two as well.

[MarvinTheMartian]

Okay, so simultaneous boarding in a complex environment is not that simple, the ships were spread out across the sector and controlling shields was taking time so it ended up being consecutive anyway. It also doesn't help having your current target shooting up your last shieldless prize with PSP when they're actually too close

Interestingly, I got 0% rep loss for the first Valhalla (using the orphan missile trick to lower the shields) at Terran Insurgent rep level and a 6% drop for the second. I also snagged a Tokyo, Osaka and the Yokohama escort from the other Osaka I destroyed and only about 20% total drop in that rep rank overall for all 5.

M/AML, it seems, is pretty effective at shooting down hammers and pods so there was a bit more effort this time to get the team on board but rotating the M7Ms in and out of Void of Opportunity via Jump Beacon worked well to keep the pace going between caps - having a Hyperion able to dock at the Valhalla made light work of supplying it with Jump Drive and energy after picking up the 1 ejected marine at the end and then returning the Hype and recharged Sirokos to CoL for the next round

Both Valhallas came with 32 PSP included so I might use them as Jump beacon defence for the 2 Permanent JBs I have, 20 2GJ shields don't come cheap but JBs don't come easy either! If I see another pair I will probably steal them for the credits, it's about 45Mil for Osaka/Tokyo but 145Mil for the Valhalla excluding PSPs!

[pref]

Number of hits affects rep loss greatly iirc.
Might not have been a glitch - maybe you used more big missiles, or higher damage per shot weapon. Or found them at lower shields.

Funny how your sat survived - i needed heavy protection, within minutes 6 or more Osakas spawned near 2 gates. They were synced perfectly in pairs, reaching the sat at the same time (they had just the top speed that made up for their difference in distance).
This wave respawned in about every 10-20 minutes. Spawn times got spread out a bit, but always in synced pairs.

Had to keep there like 10 capships (valhallas, tyrs and kyotos), and command them manually to not loose any.

[Jimmy C]

Number of hits affects rep loss greatly iirc.
Might not have been a glitch - maybe you used more big missiles, or higher damage per shot weapon. Or found them at lower shields.

When I saw how I kept getting knocked to negative rep, I took a closer look at how much rep loss I suffered on each phase of the boarding. I used the "fire then jump" method to avoid major rep loss on shield stripping. I only suffered 1, 2 rank loss when the pods land. When the marines hit deck 1, my rank plunged to negative right away.

[pref]

And this drop that you normally suffered at deck1 never happened during the glitched ops?
Would be curious how you managed that.

[Jimmy C]

And this drop that you normally suffered at deck1 never happened during the glitched ops?
Would be curious how you managed that.

I'm referring to the second of a double capture. I only did a double capture of a major race ship once in my last game, that sent me to -2 rep with that race. For some reason, that didn't happen with double capping Valhallas in my current game, until recently.
The only difference I can think of between the previous double caps and the last few unsuccessful ones was, in the ones where I managed to maintain positive rep, I managed to destroy all the escorts without them being hostile to me first.
Will have to see if that makes a difference again at the next opportunity.

Update: This seems promising. After my last Valhalla capture, I decided to just leave my Terran rep (4 from max) and go advance Shady Business a bit instead. After finishing the Freedom's Reach race, I saw that another pair of Valhallas had appeared in CoL again. This time, I was able to nail all the Vidars before they docked. After capturing one of the pair, my rank is still at +4!
So it does look like, if you can keep the escorts from becoming hostile to you, there's less rep loss. The escorts being destroyed counts as not being hostile.
I'll test with a few more Valhallas to be certain, but this is promising indeed.

[MarvinTheMartian]

I'm referring to the second of a double capture ...
the previous double caps ...
After my last Valhalla capture ...
After capturing one of the pair ...
I'll test with a few more Valhallas ...

How many Valhallas have you got?

I was using the missile jump trick, or whatever you want to call it, so I got no credit for destroying the escorts or dropping the shields, the ships remained neutral to me up until the point I launch the pods. Actually, there were a few flails I was using to control shields so it's possible this was the cause for all of the rep loss I saw. It helps of course if you're not in a sector owned by the race of ship you're boarding (no RRF either)

[Jimmy C]

How many Valhallas have you got?

Currently 16. Not counting the half destroyed one that is destined for RE'ing.

I was using the missile jump trick, or whatever you want to call it, so I got no credit for destroying the escorts or dropping the shields, the ships remained neutral to me up until the point I launch the pods.

As my last post mentioned, it seems you have to destroy the escorts before they go hostile to you. After they do go hostile, there's major rep loss.

[pref]

Thanks, ill check this next im peaceful with the Terrans. Seems like a good way to have both Valhalla resupply and peace.
Though Tyrs are almost as good, and there are much more of them. Sometimes i cap 5 of those before i run into a Valhalla

[Sir Crashalot]

I read this and tried putting advanced sats in CoL but they were all hunted down and destroyed within seconds of leaving the sector.

With 16 Valhallas you should try deploying one in each Argon sector then declare war just for giggles.

[Jimmy C]

I read this and tried putting advanced sats in CoL but they were all hunted down and destroyed within seconds of leaving the sector.

All I can say about this is try again in the future, you might get lucky. There seems to be one thing about satellites though. If you can see the Valhallas via the sats and the Vidars appear to be almost on top of it, it seems almost impossible to prevent the Vidars from docking, via OOS shortcuts.
If you have a savegame within a few minutes of seeing the Valhallas, it may be better to load that game, find out when the Valhallas appear, then go to CoL at the right time without opening the map at all.

[MarvinTheMartian]

I read this and tried putting advanced sats in CoL but they were all hunted down and destroyed within seconds of leaving the sector.

That has always been my experience in war sectors and am still very surprised that they're being ignored. I don't know if this is temporary or if I did something to change this behaviour - the only thing I've done recently is spend a lot more time in that sector personally and dropped several reputation ranks with Terrn/ATF

As for Vidars, the (only two) times I've seen the Valhallas they've just had an Aegir escort each. The only way I've been able to force docked ships to launch is when you strike a hostile hit to the ship - it could be possible to get the rep hit for just one flail hitting the Valhalla (after it's already hostile due to pod launch) making the Vidars undock and then you can go back to removing them with anonymous missiles

[Jimmy C]

it could be possible to get the rep hit for just one flail hitting the Valhalla (after it's already hostile due to pod launch) making the Vidars undock

My experience suggests that, if this happens, you're already marked for a major rep hit when the boarders start fighting. It doesn't seem to matter if you successfully nail the Vidars with anonymous missiles after this or not.

[pref]

Would be nice to figure out why your sat isn't getting attacked. I needed a strong fleet to defend it (and i left it there for more then 8 hours, attackers just kept spawning)

Maybe the same way a JB could be left there, close to the spawn point. That could make the Vidar hunt easier.

Though its pretty easy to repair negative terran rep via pirate missions, if you can manage a few 10 mins in the negative range.

[Jimmy C]

Got a chance at another double cap to do some testing. Haven't been able to complete it yet.
Having sats in CoL is proving to be a mixed blessing for me. On one hand, it saves from having to regularly jump into CoL to see if Valhallas are there. On the other hand, the Vidars will almost certainly dock by the time you jump into the sector, the map shows them on top of the Valhalla every time. Which means get set for a major rep loss when boarding the second ship.
There is some hope. It seems that the Vidars have a random chance of undocking whenever you open the sector map OOS. If you missed the initial spawning, you might get lucky here.
Sats are best if you can go immediately to the sector, it seems.

In my current double cap, I was unable to get to the Valhallas when they first appeared. So I was unable to prevent the Vidars from docking. But I got lucky, I saw the Vidars from one of them undock just when I was free to go to CoL. I successfully eliminated all three of them.

Unfortunately, it turns out this Valhalla has HPD on board while the other one, that still had docked Vidars, was clean. So I captured the other first. Then, I'm going to see if capturing the first Valhalla second will result the large rep loss too. That'll have to be tomorrow because it's too late now, and I'm also trying to game for better loot on the first cap.

[Jimmy C]

Success! I captured the second Valhalla and my Terran rank remains positive. So, I am now certain. To retain positive rank, the second of a double capture has to be performed without any other ship of that race going hostile to you. If it goes hostile, it doesn't matter if you can destroy it without getting blamed, you will suffer enough rep loss to push your rank into the negative.
As a side note, I already know it won't work if the first capture was "clean" but the second wasn't. A while ago, I tried to capture a Kyoto in Asteroid Belt after capturing a Valhalla clean. I got knocked to negative rank because I had to deal with its docked Katanas.

[Jimmy C]

Satellite monitoring of CoL has allowed to observe a possible pattern to the appearance of the Valhallas. It appears to be as follows, CoL under Argon control -> CoL under Terran control (no Valhallas) -> CoL under Terran control (Valhallas present) -> CoL under Argon control.

[MarvinTheMartian]

Satellite monitoring of CoL has allowed to observe a possible pattern to the appearance of the Valhallas. It appears to be as follows, CoL under Argon control -> CoL under Terran control (no Valhallas) -> CoL under Terran control (Valhallas present) -> CoL under Argon control.

So, I've been sitting in OL and periodically checking in on CoL to watch for changes. I had to drop two Lasertowers by each of the two adv. satellites to stop them getting done in by a Rapier now I'm a Terran Terrorist! and after about 6 hours - nothing.

Until, that is, I leave OL and get notified (SEWN) of a large Terran/ATF force in OL and then also see a Tokyo and Osaka rampaging in CoL again but it's still under Argon control.

This leads me to think that the war sectors are linked in their actions, OL went all quiet while I was in there and that must have been halting the next wave of war action in at least those two sectors. Looking again now and the Colossus Hauler has reappeared so I might have missed an entire cycle.

I have 5 Valhallas now and really have no use for more but I want to understand the cycle as it's a great location to board each and every Terran/ATF capital ship there (bar the M6s that I can't be bothered with). There are usually 2 Valhallas, 1 Tokyo, 1 Osaka plus 2x M7 escorts a piece. Last time this netted me ~300M Cr at the Yaki shipyard excluding Valahallas and weapons/shields

My plan is to use the "flying time" counter on the Valhallas and Colossus Hauler to work back to the timing of the cycle. Although I really should be building that Flail complex I desperately need to keep up with all this boarding!

[Cursed Ghost]

hi

here is how I normally do it if my target is a Valhalla ill first wipe out its escorts or I will kite the escorts about 1000km to 2000km out depends on how quick the escorts are and how many there are

then I will jump back to the gate I will them fly in close and get in-between its front and rear engine and I will match speed in that close the turrets cant shoot me the blind spot is so huge you can park a frigate in there but a Hyperion or Nova with PBGs is sufficient I'll then bring its shields down at about 10% ill call-in my Sirokos I'll then switch to PBEs and bring the shields down to 0 and I'll command the Sirokos to launch boarding pods and I'll simply wait giving the occasional blast of PBE fire to keep its shields down as necessary once the ship is mine ill have the Sirokos recover my troops from the Valhalla and jump back to base then I'll call in the aran and ill dock aboard the Valhalla transfer a docking computer from my ship and then ill dock on the aran and jump back to base

if its any other capital ship again I'll start by either wipeing out its escorts or I will kite the escorts to about 1000km to 2000km out depends on how quick the escorts are and how many there are

then the tactics depend on what ship I'm in if I'm in say my Hyperion then I'll stand off at 3km and cut my engines and pound the ship with CIGs until the shields get to about 10% strafing return fire I'll then call in my Sirokos drop the shields to 0 and launch the boarding opp once the ship is mine ill transfer a jump drive and e-cells and jump the ship away then I'll have the Sirokos follow and recover the troops from the ship

**Edit**
quick note when trying to cap terran capitals if it has a hull polarization device then the ship will be unboredable until its removed even with boarding pods and 100 hull cutting

the best method I've found for doing this is with PALCs fired from the main battery of a Pteranodon as PALCs are bugged when fired by the player so do very little damage but will wreak utter havok on your targets sub systems think of it as Ion D's with a 6km range