Why is SETA back?

[spankahontis]

There are Stasis Chambers you can buy and sell to Traders.


I don't know why they don't utilize that as a kind of SETA?

[ezra-r]

I think egosoft has made a wise decision. Both the jd and seta are welcome additons. End game in rebirth is tedious, which this will remedy a bit if nothing else.

Now if they just removed first person mode and added rare high isk drops for killing capitals ships... drops in x3 was exciting, cant say the same for rebirth. Killing xenon stations/I should give something as well. Doesnt have to be always but would be a fun alternative to missons.

yess, it was fun to bring a TP back then and loot expensive weapons to sell.

[pref]

I also know that I don't have to use seta. but for me it was the reason you did like seta. Quote: It also makes in sector travel more free (spacey), just think of seta as another booster"

I think that is not true, it is the opposite if you like seta in that way, because it is a cheat of flying faster and loading you shield faster again.
For other things like building a station, or waiting for a trade, I have some more understanding, but I didn't like seta in x3, and if there was no need for a seta for a X game, then it was XR. I think XR is a much faster game then x3, and has many ways of travel.
Jumpdrive is coming back, so in my opinion no need of seta at all.

The point is that SETA is not a cheat in that sense: the whole universe is accelerated so NPC activity speeds up too.
It is you who has limited options during this time (cant fight, command or scan) while NPC actors work the same way as with no time acceleration.
One of SETA's strengths is that it does not hinder the AI, only the player. In return you have to wait less.

I'd rather call boost a cheat as it makes Skunk really OP, and the AI can't use boost as sensibly as the player.
Though it was a great move allowing boost usage for NPC fighters - but they will never use it as well as the player can.

While SETA is not needed for XR, it will help quite a few players to enjoy it much more. The same was true for X3 imo anyway.

@Uni: Why would ES design any game around SETA only because it is there...?
It was there from start, they had most of the eco bugs because they used seta for QA.
As if SETA was the devil with an irresistable attractive force

[Santi]

Thanks a lot CBJ for the hindsight into why SETA is back and the way it is implemented into the game, the Return of the SETA was a disturbance in the force and felt by many. I also stand corrected in my assumption that you needed to remain static to use it.

I am happy too that Egosoft still feels that SETA is not the right solution for tedious gameplay (aka waiting for things to happen), and I am sure other solutions more specific to the issues will be developed in future games.

[spankahontis]

Thanks a lot CBJ for the hindsight into why SETA is back and the way it is implemented into the game, the Return of the SETA was a disturbance in the force and felt by many. I also stand corrected in my assumption that you needed to remain static to use it.

I am happy too that Egosoft still feels that SETA is not the right solution for tedious gameplay (aka waiting for things to happen), and I am sure other solutions more specific to the issues will be developed in future games.

I just wish 4.0 had more going for it, I mean SETA, Jumpdrive for Skunk and a few new Medium ships is cool and all, but doesn't really have me giddy with joy that 3.0 gave me at the time.

[UniTrader]

did you read the current patch noes or is that only based on forum replies? there are some things more included/planned..

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=355582

[birdtable]

My concern is that nothing is being added that I already have or modded or side stepped ..... The possibility of old essential mods to me and no longer supported could be broken.....
The possible negatives outweigh the few fixes offered....A quandary..

[Santi]

Looking at the patch notes, it is a huge amount of changes:

• New Feature: Bulletin board system to keep track of offered missions.
• New Feature: Beta 3 Major overhaul of external view (enabled menus, target elements, external view in highways, and more). Feedback welcome.
• New Feature: Economy logging and statistics (feature not yet functional).
• New Feature: Time acceleration using SETA (feature functional but proper means to obtain item not yet available).
• New Feature: Beta 3 New mission to obtain player ship jump drive (feature now available).
• New Feature: Beta 3 New missions to hack stations and obtain rare or valuable items.
• New Feature: Beta 3 You can now find and craft rare weapon modifications that increase your weapon's stats when installed.
• New Feature: Flight School tutorial.

And a lot of polishing that while not as flashy as new features adds a lot to the game. Hopefully it will be the same as before and the DCL will be available at the same time.

I cannot really complaint with the evolution of the game, I may disagree with some things and miss others, and will post about it of course, but post release support for the game is superb.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

For me, one of the cool side effects of the external view changes and the 'move to position' order is that it begins to allow commanding from capitals. We can fly inside Suls or Arawns, press space, switch to External View, scroll out and pan around quickly (Skunk rotation) and click on stuff either to interact with them or to double-click to bring up the contextual options like Skunk Squad Attack. Or you can switch back to Standard View and Battlestar Gallactica your way into Fighter battle

[spankahontis]

did you read the current patch noes or is that only based on forum replies? there are some things more included/planned..

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=355582

Yeah, been beta testing, I'm not doubting the massive changes, they're really impressive.
Finally the Gigurum is out of DeVries and Omicron Lyrae and Medium ships given a major speed boost.

But SETA, though asked for as well as the Skunk Jumpdrive, they weren't on my top list.
The Weapons mod feature I kind of find pointless when there are so many other things like a better Squad AI, Bridges for Capitals, some new Systems to explore etc. That would of been a better choice of new features.

There are still sections of the economy, like the weapons factories that are not balanced and useless to build as there is little demand for weapons/missiles.

[BigBANGtheory]

For me, one of the cool side effects of the external view changes and the 'move to position' order is that it begins to allow commanding from capitals.

We are getting there little by little, it rewards the patient XR player so Egosoft have been good to their word on that I'd say. I'm going to give XR a new chance over the Christmas period I think the time has come to give it another go.

[Araknis]

After reading 4 pages of various views about SETA, i would like to throw my 2 cents as well.

Back in early 2000, we were developing a software for medical use.
The end product (following the specifications requested by a medical committee) was so dense and complicated that the doctors had a hard time using, as the program was expected to track and store thousands of info.

So for example the cardiologist wanted to track the blood cell count, but the psychiatrist didnt. Should we remove it? No. In the end we just made the interface customizable and everyone used what really needed for his profession.

This life experience, set the standards for me, as to what to expect from any kind of software (games included).
I want to have as many options as possible. In fact the lack of options most of the times leads me to believe that the product is either poorly designed or not taken too seriously.

Even if there is 1 person out of the whole X community that finds SETA rewarding for his/her gameplay, then SETA should be in the game.

In my opinion, what made the X games popular, should be kept in the future releases and exist either as it was or as an improved version, or with an alternate game mechanic, but with the same outcome.
I have a ton of examples about mechanics from previous X that i like more than the ones in R, but this is not the thread to mention them.

In the end of the day, the more options we have in the game, the more time we will spend in it and since its a single player game, having all sorts of options doesnt affect the other players in any way.

[pref]

In the end we just made the interface customizable and everyone used what really needed for his profession.

Yup, the key is good UI design.
X3s spreadsheet feeling was achieved by its UI as well, not the high number of features and options. Simplifying and removing features in order to have a simple UI in the end is like tail wagging the dog.

Ime if the task/process is logical and makes sense, there is always a way to create a flexible UI for it. Sometimes it takes more thinking then the function controlled by it, but thats how development works.

[Geode3]

MY GUESS is that they know X:rebirth is a boring game... they expect you to play for hours, yet throw hordes of identical enemy fighters that have enough trouble not ramming into the station they're attacking, and since station building and management is the only somewhat interesting element in this game, they decided to speed it up.

I hope the next X game uses oculus rift

[mr.WHO]

@Geode3: Using your logic it would be still a boring game but with oculus rift support.

Not to mention Oculus share the same major downturn as older 3D visors technology - notably most normal humans get a headache/nausea after playing for more than 15-20 minutes - this is serious problem for anything bigger than short/quick mini-games.

[KiwiNZ]

After reading 4 pages of various views about SETA, i would like to throw my 2 cents as well.

Back in early 2000, we were developing a software for medical use.
The end product (following the specifications requested by a medical committee) was so dense and complicated that the doctors had a hard time using, as the program was expected to track and store thousands of info.

So for example the cardiologist wanted to track the blood cell count, but the psychiatrist didnt. Should we remove it? No. In the end we just made the interface customizable and everyone used what really needed for his profession.

This life experience, set the standards for me, as to what to expect from any kind of software (games included).
I want to have as many options as possible. In fact the lack of options most of the times leads me to believe that the product is either poorly designed or not taken too seriously.

Even if there is 1 person out of the whole X community that finds SETA rewarding for his/her gameplay, then SETA should be in the game.

In my opinion, what made the X games popular, should be kept in the future releases and exist either as it was or as an improved version, or with an alternate game mechanic, but with the same outcome.
I have a ton of examples about mechanics from previous X that i like more than the ones in R, but this is not the thread to mention them.

In the end of the day, the more options we have in the game, the more time we will spend in it and since its a single player game, having all sorts of options doesnt affect the other players in any way.

+1

While I understand that some people may not like one thing or another. Nobody has the right to decide that, since they don't like it, nobody should get it. Full stop.

Arguing that the DEVs should spend their time on something perhaps more useful or urgently needed is again a rather subjective view. Firstly, neither of us know how much work and effort was really required to implement it and whether that other feature you are looking for isn't in the pipeline but takes more time than making it possible to commit.

You may say the economy is broken because weapons aren't being purchased. I may say it gives me the opportunity to engage more in the game rather than just deploying a station and enjoying credits to trickle back into my pocket.

My own and equally subjective view is that I actually like the game as it is and will be excited about any new feature they will implement. Whether I am going to use that feature or not will then be decided by my playing style, goals in the game and preferences. But, as Araknis wrote, I LOVE TO HAVE THE OPTION!

[Gligli]

Kind of déjà-vu
All you say is true. But experience, modding, behaviour contemplation, programming knowledge are all tools that a player can use to follow a general dev idea. And communication in their side

Now, if experience say that any further enhancement or feature shall be developed or programmed with the background-regard of SETA(In other word time stretching) , I believe in it. That shall forcedly 'remove' some possibilities somewhere if seen as a natural limitation. Does someone have examples?

Maybe a word of dev about that?

Other interesting thing:
'Retro-SETA' for Max Payne's slow-motions like manoeuvre?

[BigBANGtheory]

Arguing that the DEVs should spend their time on something perhaps more useful or urgently needed is again a rather subjective view. Firstly, neither of us know how much work and effort was really required to implement it and whether that other feature you are looking for isn't in the pipeline but takes more time than making it possible to commit.

Ah but if you were to measure the popularity of a given topic it would be less subjective and there is an undenialble truth that certain topics and trends appear time and again and from many sources. The reality is if you spend too much development time on less popular features without a solid framework or core game in place commercial reality is going to give you a kick up the backside sooner or later.

Egosoft is not forced to share its descision making processes with its customers I think everyone accepts that, when they do though my observation is that it tends to have a positive result. You only have to look at this thread to see how CBJs explanation shifts the debate to a more positive tone. I'd say there is a lesson learnt somewhere in there and well done for that.

[Nanook]

Arguing that the DEVs should spend their time on something perhaps more useful or urgently needed is again a rather subjective view. Firstly, neither of us know how much work and effort was really required to implement it and whether that other feature you are looking for isn't in the pipeline but takes more time than making it possible to commit.

Ah but if you were to measure the popularity of a given topic it would be less subjective and there is an undenialble truth that certain topics and trends appear time and again and from many sources. The reality is if you spend too much development time on less popular features....

It seems to me you're making an assumption that has no real basis in fact. You're implying that SETA was not a popular feature, porbably basing it on a very tiny but vocal minority that for whatever reasons didn't like it. I challenge you to produce any data that says SETA was generally unpopular amongst players of the previous games. A few anecdotal comments don't mean squat.

[solntcev]

I get the feeling that people who don't like SETA did not spend enough time waiting for ship construction / station building / production cycles.

SETA will hugely improve Build/Trade gameplay.