Old player returns and need some help with ships and weapons

[RAVEN.myst]

almost feel like role playing as a space fuel runner just have my hidden factory's and legions of discoverers selling

Hehehe - well, I know that I'm not alone in enjoying the potential for role-playing in the Xs; and more than that: it also leads to concepts for specific playthroughs, as you've just demonstrated

[Honved]

If you go with the Humble Trader start, check immediately to see if:

A - there is an Ore Mine in the sector with a full product bar.

B - the missile factory has an almost empty resource bar for ore.

If so, then grab the Ore, sell it to the factory, and then make a bee-line south to Argon Prime. Pick up a couple of IRE lasers for the Disco (otherwise they will be bought up and gone in a couple of hours) and Remote Trade Extension software (also on the Disco), and you're good to go. Engine Tunings are critical as well, because the faster your TS goes, the faster it makes money; the faster your M5 goes, the easier it is to engage those pesky M5 targets.

Once you have the Trade Extension software on the ship you fly, you can send the TS freighter to haul Ore and E-Cells or other commodities while you fly and explore in the Discoverer (hopefully with the IREs and scanner). Assign the Mercury TS to one of your camera views (upper left or upper right), so you can easily keep track of it without searching the menus. Meanwhile, "Defend Station" missions are actually easy at the start, since at your minimal fight rank, nothing that can actually hurt a station will spawn. The local police will eventually complete the mission for you, even if you never fire a shot. Once you can afford a Mineral Scanner, you can take Asteroid scanning missions.

The Disco can mount a Triplex Scanner to extend visibility even further, and can also hold Cargo Life Support, so you can carry passengers who request "a ride" (unless they mention "transport" or "suitable for my status" anywhere in the conversation, which requires a TP class Transport ship, not your M5).

As for hitting targets, most weapons have a bullet speed that's too slow to hit a fast moving M5 class fighter without a lot of sheer luck. Engaging a pesky M5 with an M3 armed with powerful but sluggish HEPT is an exercise in frustration. By the time the bullets reach the target location, the target is long gone. IREs will give much better accuracy due to high "bullet" speed, Phased Repeater Guns (Argon) are better still (but won't fit on a Disco), and PBEs have near-instantaneous shot speeds (again, many ships can't use them), but have short range and suck unreasonable amounts of power. The previously mentioned "I Win" button, the Plasma Burst Generator, is deadly to everything, especially M5s which will simply evaporate in a couple of seconds. Again, not on a Disco.

Personally, I hate flying M6s, because they're only slightly more powerful than an M3 or M3+, yet turn almost as sluggishly as an M7 frigate. Essentially, I find them to be the worst of both worlds, neither fighter nor capital ship, aside from a couple of rare exceptions. The Hyperion Vanguard (not purchasable) is one of those exceptions: it turns like an M3+, speeds like an M3, is shielded better than almost any other M6, and carries a couple of fighters like only a few of the M7s are able to match. Another giant "I Win" button. In my current Poisoned Paranid game, I own the reward "Hyppie Van", but haven't flown it, 3 game days after finishing the plot. I am flying the Advanced Perseus, however, and that is one nice M3, yet not radically overpowered.

[ancienthighway]

Good advice from Honved for starting the Humble Merchant. Even if the missile forge doesn't need the ore, buy it anyway. There are plenty of weapons forges in the region that require ore.

My favorite M6 is the Griffon Sentinal. Ok, in reality it's an M7C, but it handles better than an M6, it has the foot print of an M6, but it can mount IPGs, CFAs and FAAs. And 9 fighters of your choice.

In TC it became my personal ship once the appropriate plot was finished replacing my original command ship, the Chokaro, and remains so until the end of my game.

[RAVEN.myst]

Personally, I hate flying M6s, because they're only slightly more powerful than an M3 or M3+, yet turn almost as sluggishly as an M7 frigate.

A perfect example of "different strokes for different folks" M6 are pretty much my favourite ship class to personally fly - I spend most of my time in them. While their firepower may LOOK the same as that of an M3, this is purely from the weapon mounts perspective - the laser generators are MUCH stronger in M6s, allowing full-HEPT loadouts, for example, to be used viably. Furthermore, M6s have better missile options available (as well as the cargo space to carry them.) For me, the larger cargo holds, allowing long jumpdrive operating range, are a major factor. However, that being said, I like an M6 with decent turrets - for example, while I love a Dragon's speed for exploration, I deplore it in combat - it has that sluggishness issue, compounded by an awkwardly long nose that compromises targeting, and a single rear turret - sub-optimal, at best. On the other hand, the Dragon is an excellent ship for launching spacewalking marines (except vs heavily shielded and armed targets - the Dragon's thin shields become very problematic.) However, give me an OTAS Skiron, an ATF Vidar, to a lesser extent an USC Katana, an Argon Centaur (in a pinch - it's not my favourite due to poor speed), the Acinonyx Prototype, a Hydra (only single rear turret again, but decent speed and less awkward turning and targeting than a Dragon), or a Kha'ak Corvette (which borders on the over-powered), and I'm a happy camper indeed I don't use Springies or Hippie-Vans ever, as they feel to me like cheating - disproportionately strong. Also, although most of the other M6+s have good combat stats, most of them (except the HCP) sacrifice too much speed, and even more importantly, have ridiculously tiny cargobays - that's the deal-breaker for me, unfortunately - I don't much fancy stopping for gas every 10 minutes - I may as well be flying an M3, then

Then again, keep in mind that my next-favourite ship-class as personal ship is the M7C, which as far as I can tell are somewhat unpopular ("underrated", more like!) So I do have somewhat unusual tastes

My favorite [...] is the Griffon Sentinal.

I'm also a fan of this ship - good handling, decent speed, compact - and it LOOKS really good (well, I like it, at least!) Oh, and a very respectable cargobay. Back when I did lots of IonD-based capital captures, I used to use this as my crippler (as well as being my base of operations - so that was most convenient!), carrying a number of IonDs, and using its small size and good agility to stay in blindspots of carriers and destroyers while I fried all their equipment. (Nowadays, I favour a less patience-intensive approach to boarding...)

[MrFiction]

As much as I like the Griffon Sentinel it's hard to use against capital ships, especially in AP. I remember fighting Xenon J M1 ships in both TC an AP. I got its shield down, took some damage myself (although the flaks on the sentinel can take care of most fighters) but after the shields went down it went down fast in TC and never in AP.

[Sirrobert]

Ships in AP have much stronger hulls, so it takes longer to kill them yes

[RAVEN.myst]

As much as I like the Griffon Sentinel it's hard to use against capital ships, especially in AP. I remember fighting Xenon J M1 ships in both TC an AP. I got its shield down, took some damage myself (although the flaks on the sentinel can take care of most fighters) but after the shields went down it went down fast in TC and never in AP.

Yes, the Griffon lacks any anti-capital weapons - but then again, very few M7s are really good against capitals, at best they dabble well (though that's ample vs other M7s, of course.) Frigates' role in these games is mostly as specialist fire-support - primarily anti-fighter (at which they excel), able to switch to anti-station by equipping IBLs, PBCs, or MAMLs, and for launching support fighters (not universally.)

My usage of the Griffon vs capitals (mostly carriers, occasionally destroyers) was as a shield and system crippler (CIGs and IonDs) - used agility and small size to stay in blind spots, or at least less defended spots, and plugged away patiently (occasionally running the hell away to recharge shields, hahahah!) Of course, after so much PT, simply killing the ship in question would be a total waste

[Sirrobert]

Multiple frigates can eat away at a capital though.

Just like multiple fighters can tear an M6 apart

[lostone1993]

If you go with the Humble Trader start, check immediately to see if:

A - there is an Ore Mine in the sector with a full product bar.

B - the missile factory has an almost empty resource bar for ore.

If so, then grab the Ore, sell it to the factory, and then make a bee-line south to Argon Prime. Pick up a couple of IRE lasers for the Disco (otherwise they will be bought up and gone in a couple of hours) and Remote Trade Extension software (also on the Disco), and you're good to go. Engine Tunings are critical as well, because the faster your TS goes, the faster it makes money; the faster your M5 goes, the easier it is to engage those pesky M5 targets.

Once you have the Trade Extension software on the ship you fly, you can send the TS freighter to haul Ore and E-Cells or other commodities while you fly and explore in the Discoverer (hopefully with the IREs and scanner). Assign the Mercury TS to one of your camera views (upper left or upper right), so you can easily keep track of it without searching the menus. Meanwhile, "Defend Station" missions are actually easy at the start, since at your minimal fight rank, nothing that can actually hurt a station will spawn. The local police will eventually complete the mission for you, even if you never fire a shot. Once you can afford a Mineral Scanner, you can take Asteroid scanning missions.

The Disco can mount a Triplex Scanner to extend visibility even further, and can also hold Cargo Life Support, so you can carry passengers who request "a ride" (unless they mention "transport" or "suitable for my status" anywhere in the conversation, which requires a TP class Transport ship, not your M5).

As for hitting targets, most weapons have a bullet speed that's too slow to hit a fast moving M5 class fighter without a lot of sheer luck. Engaging a pesky M5 with an M3 armed with powerful but sluggish HEPT is an exercise in frustration. By the time the bullets reach the target location, the target is long gone. IREs will give much better accuracy due to high "bullet" speed, Phased Repeater Guns (Argon) are better still (but won't fit on a Disco), and PBEs have near-instantaneous shot speeds (again, many ships can't use them), but have short range and suck unreasonable amounts of power. The previously mentioned "I Win" button, the Plasma Burst Generator, is deadly to everything, especially M5s which will simply evaporate in a couple of seconds. Again, not on a Disco.

Personally, I hate flying M6s, because they're only slightly more powerful than an M3 or M3+, yet turn almost as sluggishly as an M7 frigate. Essentially, I find them to be the worst of both worlds, neither fighter nor capital ship, aside from a couple of rare exceptions. The Hyperion Vanguard (not purchasable) is one of those exceptions: it turns like an M3+, speeds like an M3, is shielded better than almost any other M6, and carries a couple of fighters like only a few of the M7s are able to match. Another giant "I Win" button. In my current Poisoned Paranid game, I own the reward "Hyppie Van", but haven't flown it, 3 game days after finishing the plot. I am flying the Advanced Perseus, however, and that is one nice M3, yet not radically overpowered.

I have the ore and energy cell run done nearly everybody needs both, I have not given my disco any weapons. I am really not interested in fighting with it id rather flight then fight I am more of a tank player, I like turrets and thick shields

but thanks for the advice

Good advice from Honved for starting the Humble Merchant. Even if the missile forge doesn't need the ore, buy it anyway. There are plenty of weapons forges in the region that require ore.

My favorite M6 is the Griffon Sentinal. Ok, in reality it's an M7C, but it handles better than an M6, it has the foot print of an M6, but it can mount IPGs, CFAs and FAAs. And 9 fighters of your choice.

In TC it became my personal ship once the appropriate plot was finished replacing my original command ship, the Chokaro, and remains so until the end of my game.

Something I will keep in mind thanks

Quick question I have been having "buy my ship" pop up including a mercury super tanker for 30k are they any good ? I know they come with nothing my gut says no


I now have my disco nearly at full speed, no rudder , RTS Extension,Duplex Scanner and full cargo

I do space fuel runs for a change of pace and quick pocket cash I am searching for Life Support Upgrade to do some missions

My TS has Best buys, Best sells, full engine and rudder I can't remember about cargo so maybe, RTS Extension, will have Trade software 2 soon(So there is more automated control) and possibly a Jump Drive to do missions when trading becomes slow


I also have 2 Nav satellites one in argon prime and power circle planning to do all or most of the Argon "start sectors" about 9 sectors

I am now considering should I get a TP as my next ship or TS 3( I have not used before as far as I remember)
though knowing murphy I will be set up for these missions and they disappear

so how do think I am doing I think I have nearly 200k credits

[lostone1993]

If you go with the Humble Trader start, check immediately to see if:

A - there is an Ore Mine in the sector with a full product bar.

B - the missile factory has an almost empty resource bar for ore.

If so, then grab the Ore, sell it to the factory, and then make a bee-line south to Argon Prime. Pick up a couple of IRE lasers for the Disco (otherwise they will be bought up and gone in a couple of hours) and Remote Trade Extension software (also on the Disco), and you're good to go. Engine Tunings are critical as well, because the faster your TS goes, the faster it makes money; the faster your M5 goes, the easier it is to engage those pesky M5 targets.

Once you have the Trade Extension software on the ship you fly, you can send the TS freighter to haul Ore and E-Cells or other commodities while you fly and explore in the Discoverer (hopefully with the IREs and scanner). Assign the Mercury TS to one of your camera views (upper left or upper right), so you can easily keep track of it without searching the menus. Meanwhile, "Defend Station" missions are actually easy at the start, since at your minimal fight rank, nothing that can actually hurt a station will spawn. The local police will eventually complete the mission for you, even if you never fire a shot. Once you can afford a Mineral Scanner, you can take Asteroid scanning missions.

The Disco can mount a Triplex Scanner to extend visibility even further, and can also hold Cargo Life Support, so you can carry passengers who request "a ride" (unless they mention "transport" or "suitable for my status" anywhere in the conversation, which requires a TP class Transport ship, not your M5).

As for hitting targets, most weapons have a bullet speed that's too slow to hit a fast moving M5 class fighter without a lot of sheer luck. Engaging a pesky M5 with an M3 armed with powerful but sluggish HEPT is an exercise in frustration. By the time the bullets reach the target location, the target is long gone. IREs will give much better accuracy due to high "bullet" speed, Phased Repeater Guns (Argon) are better still (but won't fit on a Disco), and PBEs have near-instantaneous shot speeds (again, many ships can't use them), but have short range and suck unreasonable amounts of power. The previously mentioned "I Win" button, the Plasma Burst Generator, is deadly to everything, especially M5s which will simply evaporate in a couple of seconds. Again, not on a Disco.

Personally, I hate flying M6s, because they're only slightly more powerful than an M3 or M3+, yet turn almost as sluggishly as an M7 frigate. Essentially, I find them to be the worst of both worlds, neither fighter nor capital ship, aside from a couple of rare exceptions. The Hyperion Vanguard (not purchasable) is one of those exceptions: it turns like an M3+, speeds like an M3, is shielded better than almost any other M6, and carries a couple of fighters like only a few of the M7s are able to match. Another giant "I Win" button. In my current Poisoned Paranid game, I own the reward "Hyppie Van", but haven't flown it, 3 game days after finishing the plot. I am flying the Advanced Perseus, however, and that is one nice M3, yet not radically overpowered.

I have the ore and energy cell run done nearly everybody needs both, I have not given my disco any weapons. I am really not interested in fighting with it id rather flight then fight I am more of a tank player, I like turrets and thick shields

but thanks for the advice

Good advice from Honved for starting the Humble Merchant. Even if the missile forge doesn't need the ore, buy it anyway. There are plenty of weapons forges in the region that require ore.

My favorite M6 is the Griffon Sentinal. Ok, in reality it's an M7C, but it handles better than an M6, it has the foot print of an M6, but it can mount IPGs, CFAs and FAAs. And 9 fighters of your choice.

In TC it became my personal ship once the appropriate plot was finished replacing my original command ship, the Chokaro, and remains so until the end of my game.

Something I will keep in mind thanks

Quick question I have been having "buy my ship" pop up including a mercury super tanker for 30k are they any good ? I know they come with nothing my gut says no


I now have my disco nearly at full speed, no rudder , RTS Extension,Duplex Scanner and full cargo

I do space fuel runs for a change of pace and quick pocket cash I am searching for Life Support Upgrade to do some missions

My TS has Best buys, Best sells, full engine and rudder I can't remember about cargo so maybe, RTS Extension, will have Trade software 2 soon(So there is more automated control) and possibly a Jump Drive to do missions when trading becomes slow


I also have 2 Nav satellites one in argon prime and power circle planning to do all or most of the Argon "start sectors" about 9 sectors

I am now considering should I get a TP as my next ship or TS 3( I have not used before as far as I remember) or maybe a Nova then I can take on some simple defend missions
though knowing murphy I will be set up for these missions and they disappear

I think I have nearly 200k credits

so how do think I am doing

[RAVEN.myst]

Quick question I have been having "buy my ship" pop up including a mercury super tanker for 30k are they any good ? I know they come with nothing my gut says no

Any freighter being sold for 30k is an absolute steal and you should grab it, especially if you're near a shipyard. Even if you don't bother to patch it up, you will make a tidy profit on that (probably ~100k profit, at a guess, possibly more), and if you take the time to EVA for a bit and use your spacesuit's repair laser on it, you will enhance its resale value, boosting your profit significantly.

I do space fuel runs for a change of pace and quick pocket cash I am searching for Life Support Upgrade to do some missions

Cargo Life Support is essential, even if you don't plan on doing taxi missions (which apparently you do, in any case), as there are plot missions that require you to have it. Your best bet to find one is at

Spoiler

Show

Pirate Bases (there's usually one in the east side of Atreus's Clouds, which is near your current stomping grounds; alternatively, farther afield, you can find it at Boron Research Station in Great Trench, Teladi Trading Station in The Vault (if I recall correctly), Strong Arms HQ in Thyn's Excavation, Terran Military Bases, a few other Teladi Trading Stations, and one or two other places that I forget.)

My TS has Best buys, Best sells, full engine and rudder I can't remember about cargo so maybe, RTS Extension, will have Trade software 2 soon(So there is more automated control) and possibly a Jump Drive to do missions when trading becomes slow

That jumpdrive ought to be your top priority, at this point, and without delay - the increase in trade turnover will greatly accelerate your revenues - not only will even your adjacent-sector trades speed up, but you will be able to quickly execute trades multiple sectors apart. Consider this: on an adjacent-sector trip, using a jumpdrive will, on average, cut your travel time by half (which translates to doubling of trade pace.) A two-sector trip done with jumpdrive reduces travel time by an average of up to 65-75% (depending on whether you would be crossing the intervening sector, or cutting across it) - this translates into a trebling or quadrupling of trade turnaround! On a 3-sector trip, the saving averages at just over 80% - and it keeps increasing with longer trips. Yes, the jumps cost you energy cells, but those are cheap, and if you are able to make several complete trades in the same amount of time, then those ECs are insignificant in their cost. Also, the increased alacrity of using a JD means fewer late arrivals where you are beaten to a good deal by another trader.

I also have 2 Nav satellites one in argon prime and power circle planning to do all or most of the Argon "start sectors" about 9 sectors

Yes, definitely keep doing this It will help you get the most out of your jumpdrive, too.

I am now considering should I get a TP as my next ship or TS 3( I have not used before as far as I remember) or maybe a Nova then I can take on some simple defend missions
though knowing murphy I will be set up for these missions and they disappear

Here is where your options are starting to branch out. Which option you take is entirely dependent on how you want to spend your in-game time. If you want to start fighting, then the Nova is a good starting option (especially if you can pick one up cheap second-hand and patch it up yourself.) In fact, getting one when you can comfortably afford it is a good idea whether you plan on fighting immediately or not - it's good to have the ability to deliver some firepower should the need for it arise (bailing out a freighter in trouble, or fending off unwanted advances from a pirate or other miscreant.) A TP is a specialist ship: you will want it if you want to do lots of luxury passenger runs, mainly. However, this class is also faster and nimbler than TS freighters, so it's a decent choice if you want to do some salvaging - you get a decent-sized cargo-hold so you can collect a lot of missiles, for example, and store a reasonable amount of jumpdrive fuel, and you get to move around quicker than on a TS. Another use for a TP is in conjunction with a fighter (I'd recommend at least M3 for this), and a squad of marines: then you can use this team to board light targets such as TMs and M6s - but this is a more advanced course than is appropriate at this early juncture

Given your "shields and turrets" style, I would suggest getting a TM. If you are sticking with Argon ships, then you have the choice of the Magnetar or the faster and more lethal but less capacious OTAS Zephyrus. Whichever you get, it will allow you to stable your Disco in it, and a fighter once you get one, while affording you the comfort of a large cargo hold for jumpdrive energy (this is crucial - once you are no longer walking from one place to another, your options truly open up), ammo and missiles if applicable, and still have space left over for salvaging valuable items and/or personally trading in modest volumes (of presumably high-value items.) It's comfortable for long-haul exploration and satellite deployment (again, the cargo hold is handy for that - once you can afford to buy satellites by the dozen, you will want somewhere to keep them.) It will also allow you, later on, if you are so inclined, to also keep a second fighter on board as a wingman, and the last garage stall can be used either for another fighter, or as somewhere to put captured/salvaged ships so that you can take them to market for sale, or as a place for your deployed fighter drones to re-dock with your ship (carrying a significant number of drones is another possible use for the TM's cargo space.) In combat situations, you can then (if you choose to engage) jump into your docked fighter, and order the TM to protect you - its turrets will add hands-free support fire while you dogfight, and the TM itself will occasionally serve as a resilient decoy, taking the pressure off you somewhat (though DO be sure to engage whatever chooses to shoot at your TM, if you want to keep it! heheheh) Also, because your Disco is presumably also stabled at your TM, you can when needed launch in that if you have asteroids to scan or some such. Finally, if equipped with a cargo life-support system, your TM can billet up to 5 (in X3TC) or 8 (in X3AP) marines - they can't launch assaults from a TM, but at least you can start building a squad for later. (This is not an immediate concern for you - you have more pressing uses for your credits at this point, but eventually you will very likely want to start assembling a boarding party, and being able to hire a suitable marine when you find one is very useful.)

As for TCS3 software, this is one that most players will heartily recommend; I do so with some reservation (I don't really use it anymore, but that's mostly a personal preference thing - I have other methods that I prefer.) The initial outlay of over half a million is quite steep, but it does eventually pay for itself. However, don't expect one sector/local/universe trader to make you rich - it won't. You will want a fleet of one or two dozen of these - you can see the investment numbers involved in this. That being said, here are TCS3's advantages:
- Automagic income over time: this is their primary purpose, of course - to bring in money without having to constantly manage them, and in one way or another (or, more likely, a combination of methods), constant background income over time is something you will want to develop - as your character matures, you will want to spend less and less time scrounging for credits - you will have others do that for you
- Largely hands-free autonomy: once they have trained up some ways, they become quite good at keeping themselves busy without your help. This frees you to do whatever it is you'd rather be spending time on, be it combat, be it investing time and credits into developing your economy further, be it exploration, be it pursuing the mission plots - whatever.
- Background over-time improvement of race relations: because they are trading on your behalf, as with any other trade, you gain the benefits of improving your relations with factions you trade with - but now, as with the income, this "diplomacy" is taking place in a delegated manner, without you having to oversee every transaction.
If you do end up getting this, then in your starting area there are several sectors that are decent for the initial training of your merchant pilot. These are any sectors with SPPs and other industries; if multiple industrial tiers are represented in that sector, so much the better - so, if you have energy, farms, and food factories, or mines and factories that use them, then that's great. Sectors that are usually decent include Power Circle, The Hole, Ore Belt; sometimes, Antigone Memorial and The Wall can be adequate (though not great.) I'm being noncommittal here because the distribution of stations, especially power plants, can vary from one game to another, and can even change during the course of a game (though don't worry - if you depend heavily on a particular station and use it regularly, it's very unlikely to go out of business.)

There are other, and in my opinion better, ways to accomplish what TCS3 offers, but they all involve considerably more experience with game mechanics and pilot scripts, and are more technically intricate to implement. The TCS3 is a pretty good way to start off your economy (just make sure your freighter is well equipped - maxed shields is essential, for one thing - that software is expensive and represents a serious investment which you will want to protect.) It has certain subtle disadvantages (when compared to alternative methods), but these are too small to worry about at this point - walk before you run, yes?


Good hunting!

[lostone1993]

Just got an awesome trade run
had about 200k credits and now I have 700 K

I got 2 mercury Tankers for about 60k each sold them for about 70-80k each, one had a 1MJ shield and an IRE the other nothing I took the Shield and IRE and sold them properly could have got more if I repaired them but I was just testing things out so did want to put in the time

managed to find 8 Nav Sat's while exploring with my disco so bought them all, got bored of deploying them in my disco so swapped to my mercury to deploy them and got 2 missions of about 250k pay out and completed them. I am now proceeding to buy and fit out my TP and do more missions for now

I both love and hate this game at times

also I think I might need to change the title of the thread at this point

EDIT: woops just noticed was feeling too excited

big wall of text

hmm, thanks lots to think about but I won't look at the spoiler just yet

[RAVEN.myst]

That's why it was protected by a spoiler tag - whenever you're ready

Sounds like you're having fun!

[Honved]

Note that a basic Mercury or Mercury Tanker (just a visual reskin) is worth over 100K, but the Hauler and SuperFreighter variants go for several hundred thousand. The SuperFreighter XL is somewhere in the half-million range. The bigger the ship, the longer the repairs will probably take; I once boarded and captured an M6 with ONE POINT of hull remaining.....and eventually fixed it over several days of occasional repair sessions. A few minutes with the suit laser may be tedious, but can easily net you an extra 100K or more. Fixing up a badly damaged M3 can add up to over a million in profit in a best-case situation.

Finding Cargo Life Support may be tricky, but there are several convenient options for getting a Mineral Scanner, which will allow you to take Asteroid Scan missions. In a fast ship like a Disco, that's practically free money, and has the side benefit of identifying the best rocks to build your own mines on in the future.

Note that cargo upgrades are cheap for the first couple of extra units, but the price goes up with each unit you buy. At some point, it becomes cost prohibitive to add more, and cheaper to just buy another freighter. I usually add 50-150 cargo upgrades to my freighters, depending on what I have them doing. An M5 can pick up dropped wares, and being able to pick up even one more 2000-5000 credit missile will more than pay for that extra cargo slot, so I generally either max out the cargo hold or at least expand it considerably.

Once you start setting up autonomous traders (such as Trade Mk.3 software), you begin to rake in profits even while you're doing other things. I'm about 4 game days into my current run, and have over 40 TS freighters, plus a dozen or more other ships. If you set up a Sector Trader in a sector with its own source of Energy, and factories which use it, they should be able to train up reasonably fast, although you'll occasionally see them on Standby while there are no profitable deals to be made. Once they hit Level 6, you can restart them, and the game will prompt you for a "Range". A range of 0 will continue to trade in the same sector, but selecting a Range of 1 will allow them to trade there and in any adjacent sector, making them FAR more useful and profitable. Each 2 levels, they can be restarted with a longer range, but that rapidly becomes counter-productive when they start straying into Pirate or Xenon sectors and get turned into rapidly expanding clouds of gas and debris. Setting an appropriate Range and home sector allows you to control exactly where they do business (and more importantly, where they DON'T). A Local Trader (Sector Trader with Range > 0) based in Argon Prime with a Range of 3 can cover every Argon sector in that vicinity without ever straying into Pirate sectors.

At Level 7, you can also convert your Sector or Local trader into a Universal Trader, which will allow them to operate "at large" throughout the known universe. While this can be very profitable, it can also be very dangerous.

[lostone1993]

That's why it was protected by a spoiler tag - whenever you're ready

Sounds like you're having fun!

I am, I think this is the most fun I have had with an x game for a long time
I bought the TP and got the money back within an hour the TP missions with a jumpdrive are almost op one I did was 500k

800k Credits in the bank now

Note that a basic Mercury or Mercury Tanker (just a visual reskin) is worth over 100K, but the Hauler and SuperFreighter variants go for several hundred thousand. The SuperFreighter XL is somewhere in the half-million range. The bigger the ship, the longer the repairs will probably take; I once boarded and captured an M6 with ONE POINT of hull remaining.....and eventually fixed it over several days of occasional repair sessions. A few minutes with the suit laser may be tedious, but can easily net you an extra 100K or more. Fixing up a badly damaged M3 can add up to over a million in profit in a best-case situation.

at the time I was not sure how much I was going to get was, if I was seriously selling them or keeping them I would have fixed them up. at the time I was both placing Nav sat's, using my manual trader and exploring myself
you could say my hands were a little full but thanks for tips

Finding Cargo Life Support may be tricky, but there are several convenient options for getting a Mineral Scanner, which will allow you to take Asteroid Scan missions. In a fast ship like a Disco, that's practically free money, and has the side benefit of identifying the best rocks to build your own mines on in the future.

yup, that is next upgrade for the ship I was planning

Note that cargo upgrades are cheap for the first couple of extra units, but the price goes up with each unit you buy. At some point, it becomes cost prohibitive to add more, and cheaper to just buy another freighter. I usually add 50-150 cargo upgrades to my freighters, depending on what I have them doing. An M5 can pick up dropped wares, and being able to pick up even one more 2000-5000 credit missile will more than pay for that extra cargo slot, so I generally either max out the cargo hold or at least expand it considerably.

I noticed that as well, the only TS I will upgrade the cargo hold on is my personal ones or manual ones, its just not worth it otherwise

Once you start setting up autonomous traders (such as Trade Mk.3 software), you begin to rake in profits even while you're doing other things. I'm about 4 game days into my current run, and have over 40 TS freighters, plus a dozen or more other ships. If you set up a Sector Trader in a sector with its own source of Energy, and factories which use it, they should be able to train up reasonably fast, although you'll occasionally see them on Standby while there are no profitable deals to be made. Once they hit Level 6, you can restart them, and the game will prompt you for a "Range". A range of 0 will continue to trade in the same sector, but selecting a Range of 1 will allow them to trade there and in any adjacent sector, making them FAR more useful and profitable. Each 2 levels, they can be restarted with a longer range, but that rapidly becomes counter-productive when they start straying into Pirate or Xenon sectors and get turned into rapidly expanding clouds of gas and debris. Setting an appropriate Range and home sector allows you to control exactly where they do business (and more importantly, where they DON'T). A Local Trader (Sector Trader with Range > 0) based in Argon Prime with a Range of 3 can cover every Argon sector in that vicinity without ever straying into Pirate sectors.

At Level 7, you can also convert your Sector or Local trader into a Universal Trader, which will allow them to operate "at large" throughout the known universe. While this can be very profitable, it can also be very dangerous.

wow, thanks for tips 40 ships, I thought I was doing well with 3 ships

I am unsure what the next thing I am going to do now is though these are the options I have in mind once I hit 1 mill credits

-Celebrate with starting my RP element as a space fuel baron, I will begin setting up a space fuel complex somewhere, plenty of Energy cell near argon prime so will only need the Space Fuel Distil, Wheat farm, Complex Construction kit. A equipped Freighter it will be manual and 2-3 discoverer's equipped to sell it for best price

Not a serious investment(still could bring in a lot though) per say just for fun and to show a goal post I will need to find out if it will be attacked by the argon first

- Buy a TM + Nova's, not only would I have some protection for my ships but then it could lead to interesting missions or I could hunt down pirates,It would take me a while to equip them but with the TM I could buy up weapons as I fly around

I would need to find some place that sell's 25MJ shields I have not found a place yet

-Set up my first sector trader like above, I could possibly setup two of them, something to think about

-set up a proper factory, from what I observed argon prime and its sectors are full of "Raw Resource" do its pointless to set up another ore mine, food fab etc but a Laser Fac or High Tech Fac could do amazingly well if I can make it for under average price

If it were a shield or laser Fac, I could also begin amassing supplies for any new fighters or Traders the only sticking point would be crystals or Quark tubes

[RAVEN.myst]

One thing to keep in mind about the whiskey - building the complex is all good and well, but who are you going to sell to? My point is, you need to take into account availability of customers. The trading station at Herron's Nebula is all good and well, but your complex will fill it to capacity in no time, and then you will be sitting with a surplus. So you need to give some thought to where you will place your distillery.

Exporting via scout ship (M5) has serious drawbacks - you can't do this except in a VERY local context, as you don't want your little ship, no matter how fast, to have to travel 10 sectors or more there and back to clients - it'll take long and is risky, never mind that such a route is very likely to cross a Xenon sector, in which case bye-bye-birdie. You can't solve this with a jumpdrive, as any M5's cargo hold is way too limited for this even before you consider cargo. So, you may want to have one Disco or such to supply your local clients, but get yourself a fast TP, for example, to serve more distant ones, or perhaps a TM.

Also, while with legal (and thus, less complicated ) businesses I don't allow "walk-in trade", because you have to offer lower prices, with illicit stuff, doing what some other users have posted may be unavoidable, if you want your turnover to keep up with your production. In a way, this is a good thing: opening your doors to the public means less reliance on freighters, and thus less startup cost in that regard. On the other hand, it means lowered prices and thus reduced income, but in the case of spaceweed and spacefuel, it's not such an issue because: A. they are pretty lucrative, and B. many of the customers you'd be selling to are pirate bases that only ever pay average price in any case, so you're only losing a mere 1cr per crate there.

Regarding your observations on resources such as ore in the Argon Prime district - you are spot-on. Any shortage there isn't one of abundance, but one of distribution, and that's something you can cash in on. Sector/local traders can capitalise on that. Alternatively, here's a somewhat more advanced approach you might want to keep in mind for some day:

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build an Ore Mine L somewhere - location is more important than yield, for this particular scheme, so Herron's Nebula is good, though Antigone Memorial isn't bad either if you want to combine both aspects (there are 2 VERY rich ore asteroids in AM). These locations are good because of their access to plentiful energy, and the proximity of possibly the largest concentration of ore consumers, the Argon Prime block of sectors. You set up a Commercial Agent ("CAG") that will buy energy and, eventually, sell ore. At some point, you then add a Commodity Logistics (External) ("CLS2") ship to buy cheap ore from the local ore mines and bring them to your own mine, to be sold - in this manner, you don't compete against the local mines, you co-opt them into your business, thus taking ownership of the local ore market! Learning how to use CAG and, even much more so, the CLS2, is an advanced matter, so not to be gone into here and now. But suffice to say that, ultimately, you can have a few of these CLS2s buying up ore from mines all over the universe, which you then sell from your mine to the whole universe, at a healthy markup - you can ALWAYS buy ore at 50 if you have enough mines in your supplier list, and ALWAYS sell at 190+, usually ~200, if the universe is your CAG's oyster. That's about 300% gross profit. You can also incorporate the inverse to energy - having a couple of CLS2s selling your mine's energy to the local area, thus stimulating their productivity and their demand for your ore. In a recent such setup, I had around 6 or 8 CAGs buying energy and selling ore, 2 CLS2s selling energy, and 5 CLS2s buying ore - this system (a mine that was actually serving as a trading post for energy and ore) was bringing me several million credits per hour - that's pretty high for such a small operation (in terms of factories and number of freighters.) It's an approach I am now applying quite often, sometimes with different factory types (ie. other than ore mines - but usually I end up including ore at some point, as it is just so damn profitable! )

[Sirrobert]

Eh you don't need need to sell Wiskey. The customers will come to you

[pref]

You can set an insane margin if selling drugs to pirates in race owned space, it sells on max price there (both weed and fuel).
Making friends with pirates also helps a LOT if you ever need to recover rep for a race.

The only problem is that these pirate bases provide a limited demand.
You can probably keep them well fed with a smaller (5-10x production for both) drug plex.
Set sell price to near max, and add a quick CAG fleet (speed >> cargo, so M3 fighters, springys, hyperions or whatever else you like). These pilots need to be well trained so they can use jump drive and the full 50 sector range. Without that your ships will just idle, or waste time in various ways.

Iirc amount of trade rep gain is also related to profit %. Meaning these trades will increase rep much more effectively then the average trade run.

You also have to re-explore areas as pirate bases will get destroyed and rebuilt someplace else frequently.

[Sirrobert]

That's the main thing yes. If NPCs come to you, there is an unlimited demand

[pref]

Yes, but that only gets you money. For that probably a 1-5 mj shield plex or such is more effective. No legal restrictions, also unlimited demand and those wares might have a use for the player as well.

In order to make rep and trade rank increase out of your trades your own ships have to do the transaction, and do that with profitss. This is what drug business excels at imo.
Incoming NPC ships will just add to your wallet.