Laser Rebalance Mod

[Burianek]

Edit 7/23
This is outdated.
The new version is available here

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excerpt from readme:
This laser rebalance is a very small portion of a mod I'm currently working on. I'll release the entire thing after version 1.4 comes out and I can make it compatible. I've released this small portion on the behest of Kailric (you can thank him) It works extremely well with, and was designed to operate hand in hand with his Improved Combat AI. Have fun testing this out and hopefully waiting for 1.4 will be a little easier.

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Lasers have globally been increased in speed to offset the faster flying speeds in this mod. Percent increases vary from a modest 50% increase to 150% increases, or 2.5 times the original amount. In general, beam weapons, like ion disruptors and khaak weapons received the smallest increases and particle weapons, like the IRE, PAC, HEPT, and PPCs got the larger speed boosts. The exception is the PSG, which as a spread weapon, only received the 50% speed upgrade.

Range has also generally been increased slightly to compensate for the generally faster flying speeds. Most weapons got roughly a 50% increase in range. Notable exceptions are PSGS and Khaak lasers, which actually received a 10% decrease in range (except the khaak capship weapon which is now comparable in range to a BPPC). The mining laser and laser tower received roughly an 80% increase in range. Lastly, the ion disruptor has had its range reduced by 40%. I don't feel this nerfs the ion-d, its range after the reduction is still a respectable 800m, plenty of room to work with. Reducing the range more properly sets the weapon into its niche, that of a close range subduement weapon. When faced with an enemy with ion disruptors, it is now a viable strategy to try to keep within the 800m to 1.5 km range so that you can fire your weapons at him, but he cannot hit you. I think this is a desirable added tactical layer. The other side effect is that is greatly reduces the nasty tendency of the weapon to jump from ship to ship and damage friendly units. PSGS have had their range slightly decreased for similar reasons, most would agree they were too powerful in the original game. Now they serve a purpose, that of a closer range battering ram so to speak.

Note that the common combination of 150% speed increases with only 50% range increases will make the bullets feel like they are flying much faster in the game. This is the desired effect. It's a bit harder to simply strafe around a capital ship firing ppcs at you now. You're going to have to work much harder to avoid enemy fire, especially at close range.

On to damage. In X2, once a ships shields have been depleted, combat is pretty much over. It usually just takes a couple of shots to rip through an enemy's hull. In many other combat sims, once the shields are down, that's just when combat starts getting exciting. In these other games, ships can take repeated shots to the hull before they are destroyed, and if it's the player ship these can be tense, exciting moments playing defense, desperately trying to nurse your shields back up to stength before re-entering the fray. To try to fix this, lasers across the board have had their hull damage reduced by about 50%. Hulls now mean something. Shield damage is largely unchanged, with a few minor exceptions. After this global reduction to lasers, a few weapons which I felt were unbalanced versus each other were then adjusted. APACs had their shield and hull damage increased slightly so that they are marginally better than GIREs but still well below BPACs. PSGs have had their shield damage slightly reduced, but hull damage unchanged (except for the standard 50%). (They were a bit too powerful in my estimation. Heck they're still too powerful in my estimation, but the range helps balance them) If you disagree with me and think I've underpowered them, wait until you fight an opponent that's packing one. The mass driver has had its hull damage increased by roughly a factor of 3. It was way underpowered in the original game, and is now 'just about right.' Feel free to disagree and let me know, but I think they're worth trying out now. HEPTs received an extra reduction. Under the original rules, HEPTs did the same amount of hull damage as PPCs. That didn't make any sense to me that a fighter class weapon was as powerful as a carrier class weapon. There was a huge discontinuity in damage between PACs and HEPTs. BHEPTs used to be 4 times as powerful as a GPAC. They are now only twice as powerful. I think you'll like the change.

More info included in readme file

[matthewfarmery]

I LIKE!!!!!

Can’t wait for the full version! Your mod makes combat a whole lot more interesting, I also like what you have done to the IDs

Very good, gets my thumbs up

[brohawk]

Does the MWM include similar if not same adjustments?

[Damar Stiehl]

This will make the IonD a lot harder to use on capships, don't you think?..

[Demosthanese]

If IOND's were ment for close up furballs, than why do so many caps mount them?

In general, I think lasers should be faster. It's far too easy to dodge a capships PPCs in even an M6. Takin on a capship in a lone corvette should be near suicidal.

[Greyhawk1]

Be warned - even an 80% increase in range for the mining laser still makes it barely possible to mine in an Hercules. Just tried it - got destroyed in 1 sec.

[Kailric]

This will make the IonD a lot harder to use on capships, don't you think?..

IMHO I think the IonDs are way too powerful to begin with. Once you own one then combat becomes several times easier. Any two ships who square off, the one without the IonD is gonna loose. I can't see them beaing used in online play as everyone will have them then its just a battle of who can get the others shields down the quickest and fire the first missile.

The lesser hull damage is what I love about this mod. I remember so well playing Privateer, Wing Commander, and such and the sound of my hull being ripped apart but somehow surviving and haveing to "limp" back to base, but left with the sensation of "wow, that was exciting"!

[Azzkicka]

If IOND's were ment for close up furballs, than why do so many caps mount them?

In general, I think lasers should be faster. It's far too easy to dodge a capships PPCs in even an M6. Takin on a capship in a lone corvette should be near suicidal.

Are you strafing?

If you are that's why none of the AI ships including Capital ships can hit you even when you’re in your corvette.

As it is right now when you strafe the computer simply cannot hit you because the auto targeting doesn’t account for it.

Try going up to an M2 in a corvette no strafing AT ALL and see if you can dodge all the fire. If you can then ignore this whole post and I agree with you, but if you can't then its simply a matter of the strafe drive needing to be addressed.

[Constipated_Vigilante]

Be warned - even an 80% increase in range for the mining laser still makes it barely possible to mine in an Hercules. Just tried it - got destroyed in 1 sec.

Greyhawk, TLs aren't really intended to be actually mined from. They're supposed to CARRY the mining team. I have a demeter for drilling on my elephant, it works extremely well. I just tell it to move to a position next to the asteroid, then switch to a monitor view and pilot it.

[Greyhawk1]

Be warned - even an 80% increase in range for the mining laser still makes it barely possible to mine in an Hercules. Just tried it - got destroyed in 1 sec.

Greyhawk, TLs aren't really intended to be actually mined from. They're supposed to CARRY the mining team. I have a demeter for drilling on my elephant, it works extremely well. I just tell it to move to a position next to the asteroid, then switch to a monitor view and pilot it.

Strange that a mining laser can be mounted on one if they "arent really intended". Methinks the idea was approved without the design people being told. As it is, the prongs on a Herc make mining pretty much impossible despite there being an available mount.

Not that I'm ever going to bother with mining. When BBS missions can net more that a couple of hours worth of slog mining in one mission, it hardly seems worth it.

Just wanted to give it a shot with the new ranges. Just to see if it worked.

[Constipated_Vigilante]

It's one of the many stupid design decisions in this game, and they are numerous. Just to name a few:

Betty's incessant bitching
8 KM comm distance
BBS only accessible when docked, and not available at all for M6 class and above

I think Enlight might have given Egosoft a date to get it done by or else they would have to bump the publishing/shipping back to a much later date, and Egosoft decided to "finish" it in the patches, and I think 1.4 might really be the fixer.

[Kralion]

Greyhawk, TLs aren't really intended to be actually mined from. They're supposed to CARRY the mining team. I have a demeter for drilling on my elephant, it works extremely well. I just tell it to move to a position next to the asteroid, then switch to a monitor view and pilot it.

Strange that a mining laser can be mounted on one if they "arent really intended". Methinks the idea was approved without the design people being told. As it is, the prongs on a Herc make mining pretty much impossible despite there being an available mount.

It's more a case of the mount being in the wrong place, if it were on a front turret like the Oddy it would be OK, if it were on the left or right turret it would be OK, but not under the cockpit! If you look at the ship stats on The Commander's Space Station, the ship stats show the mining laser mount on the left turrets. I guess this was "patched" to it's current location as these stats are out of date

You get some success if you aim for the bottom of the asteroid and allow your "bonnet" to pass under it. I'd recemmend sticking to a TS for the mining though, 'cos sooner or later you're bound to misjudge

[Dave0583]

I don't think the original MDs are underpowered; not when you consider that they don't affect shields. In an Argon Centaur I didn't even need to use the strafe drive to avoid the Xenon K's PPC fire; I just flew in a corkscrew pattern with the auto-aiming off and sprayed it with MD fire for about an hour while leading it away from the approaching J's (all those darn fighters clog up the framerate). The MD is the equalizer between Corvs and Capships; a more powerful MD would be too easy. As to HEPTs being a fighter weapon, I disagree. Only Corvettes/Capships can mount a Gamma Hept (and the range is so small there's no point putting one on a Cap!), so that's an intermediate weapon. I believe that as corvettes are sort of half-way between fighters and capships, they should be able to mount the APPCs, in which case the HEPTs can be scaled back a bit. On second thought, I'd rather see the PPCs be much more powerful than see the HEPT get scaled back.

[Azzkicka]

I think HEPT fire causes too little damage to hulls in this mod, especially when PPC fire basically hasn’t changed on hull damage. It would be insanely hard for a big fleet M6s and M3s to take down a even single Capital ship now.

I think HEPT hull damage should be raised maybe to 2x from what it currently is. I don’t know about the other weapons besides PPCs as I didn’t use any of them.

I’ve switched back to my other personal Faster laser Mod that has the same hull damage for all weapons, but I think this one has potential if the hull damages are changed.

[Kailric]

I think HEPT fire causes too little damage to hulls in this mod, especially when PPC fire basically hasn’t changed on hull damage. It would be insanely hard for a big fleet M6s and M3s to take down a even single Capital ship now.

I think HEPT hull damage should be raised maybe to 2x from what it currently is. I don’t know about the other weapons besides PPCs as I didn’t use any of them.

I’ve switched back to my other personal Faster laser Mod that has the same hull damage for all weapons, but I think this one has potential if the hull damages are changed.

Actually that was one of the whole points to the mod...to make combat more interesting by decreaseing hull damage..therefor battles take somewhat longer and are not over in a flash. Your hull can take lots more of a beating alloying you to enjoy the thrill of a near death experience Missile Hull damage has not been decreased so a missile shot to an unshielded ship is still deadly. Also i believe all lasers hull damage was dropped repectively?
Not all mods are for everyone...thats what makes this whole thing cool. We can pick and choose.

Have you tried takeing on a Capitol ship yet?

[Azzkicka]

I think the idea of decreased hull damage by weapons is really cool too as that was the main reason I downloaded this mod instead of just using the one I already have. The lower level lasers just do a bit too little damage to hulls for my taste. Also I had hoped this mod would make Capital ship battles more strategic instead of who can bring the most guns to bare on the enemy first and for longest battles. Unfortunately the almost unchanged PPC damage to hulls didn’t change that

Also missiles were unchanged so using missiles, and especially hornet missiles on a ship that still had substantial shields left still caused instant death.

I think this mod would be great if:

1) PPC Hull damage is decreased to be only slight better then HEPT damage to hulls. This would give large fleets of M6-M3 ships a fair chance at destroying capital ships. Or all weapons except PPCs do a bit more damage to hulls.

2) Missiles are changed to do less damage to shields so they don’t destroy ships so easily.

Like I said in my previous post though I think this mod has great potential I just think it needs a bit of tweaking.

BTW I didn’t try attacking a M2 or M1 with a fleet of lower class M6 or M3 ships, but I did have a few capital vs capital ship battles and they were basically unchanged from before. I am only guessing that a fleet of lower class ships wouldn’t have a chance at taking out an M2 because of the very low damage HEPT weapons do to hulls compared to how fast the m2s PPC will be able to take out the attackers hulls.

[Burianek]

Feel free to fight this debate out amongst yourselves. I'm happy to build my mod however you all collectively would like it. I will not however build personalized mods for each of you . So if you can come to a collective agreement about how you'd like something, I'll change the mod. (In any way shape or form you choose) If you can't agree, it will stay reasonably close to how it is (unless I want to change something of course)

Fair enough? Let the debate begin!

(my thought was that I wanted capitol ship weapons to be much stronger than fighter weapons by the way. A cap ship costs as much as 50-80 m3s remember. If you attack a M2 with 50 M3's mounting 'weak' hepts, I think we both know who will win)

[Kailric]

I am currently runnint test on things...so I will get back to you on the results:) Thats a good point about the 50 to 80 M3s..actually I did not know that as I never got to owning a M1 or M2. So Capitol ship battles are not my thing, but what I have seen of them it seems to me that you would have to have swarm of M3 and I mean a huge swarm to do what it would take to destroy an M2 especially with a faster laser mod. So it would be my guess that if your gonna attack an enemy M2 you need to an M2 yourself. I will do some test runs on this. I remeber the Capitol ship fights in other games and I remember them being long and fun battles where you could actually fire torpedos at a Cap ship and they would hit...the turrents in X2 are just to darn good for that.

[matthewfarmery]

Now that I have really tested this mod I feel it need a revision.

I fly a Nova and regularly use the ID and BHEPT combo but there’s a big problem with this, the first problem is that the BHEPTs do a lot of shield damage by themselves almost making the ID obsolete, the other big problem when running with this combo the a single BHEPT doesn’t do much hull damage

So what should happen is that BHEPTs should do more hull damage but far less shield damage. This will once again make IDs useful once again. Especially against the Khaak M3 or pirate M3s

I do like the range and firing rate of the BHEPT and the range of the ID but I do find it annoying that I’m doing very little hull damage with my favourite combo, PLEASE, PLEASE rectify this

[Kailric]

Now that I have really tested this mod I feel it need a revision.

I fly a Nova and regularly use the ID and BHEPT combo but there’s a big problem with this, the first problem is that the BHEPTs do a lot of shield damage by themselves almost making the ID obsolete, the other big problem when running with this combo the a single BHEPT doesn’t do much hull damage

So what should happen is that BHEPTs should do more hull damage but far less shield damage. This will once again make IDs useful once again. Especially against the Khaak M3 or pirate M3s

I do like the range and firing rate of the BHEPT and the range of the ID but I do find it annoying that I’m doing very little hull damage with my favourite combo, PLEASE, PLEASE rectify this

Like I told Azzkicka this mod was designed with the low hull damage in mind. This is to make battles last a tad bit long, or maybe just more than a tad. It may not be your thing...but looking at the readme the shield damages where not changed only the hull damages where changed by 50% less. This would mean that your battles would last 1.5 times as long, in theory Thats the whole reasoning behind that part. If the hull damage was not decreased with the speed increase the battles would be even shorter as ships would die faster. But we are still play testing