New to X3:AP -- I made some money. What should I buy now?

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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X-Me
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New to X3:AP -- I made some money. What should I buy now?

Post by X-Me » Sat, 21. May 16, 16:51

Hi,
I began to play Albion Prelude a few days ago. I don't understand much of the game, but it was expected -- I'm not complaining.

// BEGIN - useless story to stretch the post
Started a Custom game. Bad idea: aimless + clueless + broke + stuck on slow ship.
Restarted as Humble Merchant. Not knowing where to go, I sold the cargo ship for quick cash and I upgraded my Discoverer, but then I was near broke.
I began doing Easy missions. After scrounging in every trash bin for 11 hours, and only to amass a paltry 28000 credits, I discovered the stock exchange.
I looked at the wall of numbers for minutes without touching anything. Two hours later I walked away with 21.7 millions. Had I known it from the start I'd have flown this way immediately instead of wandering for so many hours. Oh well, good knowledge for the next time.
// END - useless story to stretch the post

So... 20 millions should be enough to start a business, yes?
Problem is: I don't know what to do with this money. At the moment I've charted 22 sectors. I think to keep my Discoverer -for the mobility- and buy a good cargo ship. But then what? Which software extensions should I equip on her so she can start trading for me? And will she need a military escort? Can I even set one up? I could use a few hints.
No spoilers, please.

Thanks :)

Sirrobert
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Post by Sirrobert » Sat, 21. May 16, 17:00

Be careful not to be tempted to much by the stock exchange. It can be nice to get a quick start, but to much money will suck the fun out of your empire building (which is the main bulk of the game)

As for starting your empire, I'd advise you set up some automatic trading. Buy a TS, equip it with Mk3 trade software, and let it lose on the universe
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=121043 This explains the whole process.

Don't worry about protecting your trader for now. Just let it lose in core Argon sectors and it'll be perfectly safe.
Just: whatever you do, do NOT let it go into the war sectors (marked red on the map, you probably haven't even found them yet). Everything you send in there dies, even if you are friends with both sides
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Sat, 21. May 16, 18:09

The game works so much better for me when I fly around doing stuff and find myself saying "wow, if I had a [such and such ship, or factory, or whatever] I could do [whatever] and I think that would be really profitable, or at least fun." Then I have to figure out what I need to get that ship or factory or whatever, which usually involves making some amount of credits and sometimes involves building up my reputation with some race or other.

People who have followed this path of "I have this money now what do I do with it" before seem to frequently disappear from the forum and the game, and I hope that doesn't happen to you.
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Sat, 21. May 16, 18:38

OMG, here we go again (no offence intended!) My advice, seriously - scrap the game, start over, and pretend the stock exchange doesn't exist.

What you describe is a problem I've seen chronicled more than once - players figure out the easy cheat that the SE effectively is, and suddenly are rich but without a clue about what to do with their unearned scratch. Also, there is the great danger of skipping too much incremental development - put simply, you skip a lot of the fun. I've seen many a player (in both this game and others, in similar situations) get too many resources too quickly, get bored, and quit.

To put the SE in perspective: I truly believe that it is intended as a tool for veterans to short-cut the early development if they have something specific they want to try out without building up to it - but note that in order to decide to try something specific and exotic, you need to know enough about the game to be able to formulate such an experiment.

A brief example of extending a game's lifespan: I am currently re-playing X3 Reunion, which has no stock exchange (and if it did, I wouldn't use it.) I started with an M4 Buster - I earned enough by scavenging missiles and such, and making small trades, to get an M5 Discoverer and to trade in my M4 Buster to get me a TS Mercury - basically emulating a Humble Merchant start. I then used the Mercury to run various trades - a little bit of ECell trading, then mostly Silicon Wafers (can be VERY lucrative if you find trades at the extremes). Now, this combination of scout and freighter is very powerful, because I fly in the scout, quickly going from sector to sector looking for good trades and exploring in the meantime, and sending my freighter remotely to execute the trades and make money.

Now it's 5 days after start. In that time, I set up a silicon mine in Herron's Nebula, assigned my original freighter (which I gradually upgraded) to it as a CAG (Commercial AGent), while I carried on exploring and salvaging stuff. Once I could afford to, I set up a small Flower Farm in Greater Profit, as I spotted a major market niche there (lots of Sun Oil Refineries and Solar Power Plants, but nothing to bridge them - so in I stepped.) I then added 3 more to that one, turning it into a complex, and later another 2. Then I diversified, and added two large Dream Farms, because also there are gaps in the market there. Most recently, I built another silicon mine, on a rich asteroid in Antigone Memorial, and linked it to my original mine using a CLS (Commodity Logistics freighter.) My Teladi farm complex has 2 CAGs. And I am still flying around in my Discoverer, finishing up exploring the map in preparation for getting on with the campaign plot. Along the way I also found an abandoned M4 Pericles with decent guns and equipment, which I sold to help finance my developing economy. I've had ample opportunity to buy a bigger fighting ship, but am in no hurry, rather investing proceeds back into expanding my economy, which is now generating I think close to a million an hour - that's still peanuts, but it's constant "hands-free" income, which trickles in while I do whatever I feel like doing (which, at present, involves spending the cash to keep growing my industry.) Next up, I will add another 2 Flower Farms and 2 Dream Farms to my Teladi farm complex, then I will set up a modest solar power plant in Argon Prime, as there is an energy shortage in the surrounding area. At this point, my income will be accelerating all the time, so I will be able to invest in parallel in the business and in fighting ships - I may get a M3, or I may skip straight to a M6. In Reunion, there are no TMs - if there were, I would have invested in one ages ago, it's a real must-have in the early game, allowing one to carry a couple of fighters and decent freight capacity wherever one goes.

Now, how boring would it have been for me to skip over all that by click-click-clicking and suddenly having a ton of cash? It would render the game pointless to me.

Also, here's an important factor: if you skip the low and intermediate stuff, you don't get to learn important in-game skills, skills of all kinds: combat, economic, navigational - you name it.

You have been warned!

Good hunting :)

EDIT: PS: I was in such a hurry to reply to the OP (as you can see, I feel RATHER strongly about it!), that I briefly skimmed over the other two replies, but have now gone back to read them. You may notice that both others are also cautioning (though more tactfully than I :D ) to beware of easy money quick-starts...

EDIT2: X-Me, you have played Rebirth before, yes? Well, in X3 you don't get capital freighters (though some players do use TLs as such - but it's really tricky and inefficient within the game's structure.) Your typical freighter will cost about 1kk to fully outfit but considerably less than that to be decently functional, a large superfreighter can cost several times that, but never will you need tens of millions - there are no Lyramekrons or Scaldises here. The game has much finer "resolution", it is more fine-grained. In Rebirth, it's very fast and easy to make money, and it's just as easy to spend it. In X3, each credit is effectively worth more, on average. 100,000cr gets you one of the most expensive regular equipment items, a jumpdrive (Turbo Boosters are even more expensive, by a lot, but you can only use them in ships that you fly personally, so they are a specialty, long-term investment.)
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How about AP combat?

Post by Bill Huntington » Sat, 21. May 16, 19:00

Welcome to AP, X-me!

Other pilots will give you advice about trading and station building. Let me give the combat choice. You were wise to keep the Disco and outfit it. Now you've got your start-up cash too. You can work your way up to an M3 and learn AP combat in the process. IREs are a good enough weapon to start. You can usually take a ship one class higher than you. Even the Paranid Pericles is an adequate M4. The others are better but the Pericles can help you take an M3. Then you take an M3+. Learn how to cap ships, then loot them and sell them. Buy yourself a Chokaro in Senator's Badlands with the money you already have. I like to have a Chok or Boa to move my mini-fleet around all together in one nice package. You can cap Paranid civilian ships to start with if there's not a better choice. A Goner Ranger sells for $3 Mil and can't even fight back. I feel so sorry for them but I'll still take their ship. I like to build up my own support fleet by capping them. You should do missions for races when you cap their ships when you can. The higher rank you are, the less impact a cap has on your rep. Many prefer missiles for their combat. I almost always use just guns to save $ though I always have some Mosquitoes on board.

When you've gotten $21 Mil or so, buy your Elephant, get yourself to top rank with every race, and then decide the next step in your game. I usually do this within one game day with every TC and AP start. If you're just figuring out the parts, it'll take longer.
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Post by ancienthighway » Sat, 21. May 16, 21:35

I've played this game for years, X2 - X3R - X3TC - X3AP.

The times I've taken shortcuts to quick cash, I've stopped the game well short of any plots and restarted. I imagine you'll last a bit longer since it's all new to you. You'll buy a big ship go out to fight and die, simply because you don't understand the combat by learning small and working your way up. You'll think fleet, and go into combat with a hodgepodge of ships, only to see them all blown to pieces before your eyes. Ragequit and badmouthing the game.

Or maybe you'll buy a half dozen stations and watch them blink yellow while you figure out what you need to do to make it stop and not come back, because you didn't get a handle on the automated trade you can set up. Quit out of frustration and badmouthing the game.

OR, you can save your current game, moving it to a safe folder to come back to when you understand more and restart once again. Restarts are normal. It's not uncommon to start a game to accomplish or test out a given task, then restart and try something different.

The Humble Merchant is a good place to start. Keep the Mercury and get a grasp on trade. As your game matures, it will be a steady source of income. Not great, but steady. You could sell the Disco to jump start your trading a bit, or park it to start flying it later as your Merc becomes more self-sufficient for AI flight. (I sell mine because they are cheap and the cash is more useful up front.) Keep an eye out for pilots selling their ships, usually around gates, but sometimes docked. You can pick up a good deal to increase your trade fleet or even replace the Disco if you sold it.

Explore. See what's out there and look for opportunities. Do you want to fight the pirates, or make friends with them? Focus more combat or stick with industry and trade. What do you need to start the plots? What can you do to give yourself the chance to do missions without having to pass them up because of the wrong ship (as Bill suggested, the Chokaro).

Take your time to learn the game and it will be in your game rotation for a long time. Or even bump every other game out of the rotation.

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Sat, 21. May 16, 21:55

^^^ What ancienthighway said (it's very good advice) ^^^

The "numbered Xs" (especially TC and AP, but all of them, really) are all about choices, in a way that Rebirth just can't pull off. There's no single right answer, but selections of viable options. And also, be it combat, trade, empire building, exploration - whatever your favourite flavour, it's accommodated. :)
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Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Sat, 21. May 16, 22:14

Don't spend all money on one thing, it's to easy to buy the wrong thing.
If I were you I would spend 8-10 Million on a good Combat ship,
3-4 mil in Traders and 6-7mil in some stations, but I normally prefer Combat in early game.
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Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » Sun, 22. May 16, 00:04

Urgh. Stupid Stock Exchange. Try starting over as a Savage Split. That nets you a Split M5 with some nice guns, and you can use those to take an M4 or M3. (Yes, it's possible to capture an M3 with an M5. You have to be very careful about it though.)

If you want some quick early cash from Humble Merchant, instead of going full on cheat mode, head north one sector from Argon Prime, and look to the north west. You'll find a couple of Space Fuel distilleries. Buy everything you can with your discoverer, and then race to the Trading Station in the middle of the sector. Do this until it's full. Don't worry that the initial profit margin seems low, each run will make a profit and let you move more for more profit. By the time the Trading Station is full, you'll have made a lot of cash.

This is the real way to make cash in addition to missions. Early you want to watch for defend station missions. Those are pretty easy. If you manage to fail to hit them, mostly they'll smash themselves on the station. You don't get kill cash for not killing them, but you still get the minimum mission pay. The best ones are from stations towards the middle of a sector so you have time to react to engage them. Eventually you'll likely get a ship to bail that you can sell for additional cash, or enough cash to buy one on your own.

Short answer: The series Tagline is Trade. Fight. Build. Think. The stock exchange is none of these. They couldn't include the cheat menu mod, so they put the Stock Exchange in. The only real use for it is to see what you can sell in what sector because the stock is high because the item is not present.
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Post by Sirrobert » Sun, 22. May 16, 00:05

Triaxx2 wrote:Urgh. Stupid Stock Exchange. Try starting over as a Savage Split. That nets you a Split M5 with some nice guns, and you can use those to take an M4 or M3. (Yes, it's possible to capture an M3 with an M5. You have to be very careful about it though.)
And pick one without a rear turret
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Sun, 22. May 16, 00:23

Another good early-game money-spinner is missile salvage: good sectors for this are Elena's Fortune, the War Sectors especially Asteroid Belt and Heretic's End, and to some extent any sector bordering on pirate space (and pirate space itself, though then you HAVE to be quick on your feet should the locals decide they want to hold you by your feet and shake you.) Discoverer is an excellent ship for this, as it is both quick and can handle cargo up to M size, meaning that it can collect some of the missiles/torpedoes worth 80k each. It's amazing how quickly money piles up when selling mid- to high-end missiles. Elena's Fortune can be particularly good because you have the Military Base there which you can run to if you get in trouble (it has orbital defense platforms to vape pirates), and at which you can also sell salvaged missiles and weapons. Furthermore, if you are lucky, a pirate capital ship might wander in looking for trouble, which generally means quite a few civilian and military casualties (the more there are, the more loot drops, of course), and eventually the capital ship itself will get taken down and might drop some valuable stuff.

These aren't the only places to look - as mentioned above, anywhere bordering on pirate space will do, War Sectors (if playing AP, not in TC, though), and areas bordering on Xenon sectors also often see action that can leave goodies floating in space. Also, the latter areas often have the "defend position" (from Xenon) missions, which can be quite lucrative, and very good for impressing the local government.
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Post by Snafu_X3 » Sun, 22. May 16, 01:14

Grab a Mk3 radar from a Military base/outpost ASAP, along with some adv sats (ASats)

Sprinkle your ASats in out-of-the way places in each sector you come across as you discover them; they'll be great for figuring out what to trade & where to go, especially if you have BestBuy/BestSell s/w from a Teladi EqD

In the meantime you can explore, or support the local defences for dropped loot. Grab a decent defensible trader with a jumpdrive ASAP (Chokaros are pretty much the best but others are available). Remember to set its auto-refuel to a decent distance once it has a JD (I use 20 gates, but YMMV depending upon whether you want it as a personal trader or a remote)

Buy a TS & (expensive) Trade Mk3 s/w. Set it to trade & learn in a nearby sector (EE in Paranid space is the best, but Ore Belt & Queen's Space are fairly reasonable). Once it reaches lvl8 set it to trade between 2 sectors; at this point your profitss will be booming!

Look for isolated areas with a dearth in a certain basic resource (usually ore in weps-producing areas) & build a suitable station there, then assign a CAG. This will provide you with a steady (if individually low) income. Add more stations as appropriate when you find the opportunity, to increase this automated income (& perhaps increase the availability of those station's products when you'll need them later!)

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Triaxx2
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Post by Triaxx2 » Sun, 22. May 16, 02:22

Sirrobert wrote:
Triaxx2 wrote:Urgh. Stupid Stock Exchange. Try starting over as a Savage Split. That nets you a Split M5 with some nice guns, and you can use those to take an M4 or M3. (Yes, it's possible to capture an M3 with an M5. You have to be very careful about it though.)
And pick one without a rear turret
Having taken on a Nova with a Jaguar (Savage Split Starter Ship), I have to acknowledge this is good advice. It can be done if the target has a turret, but you've got to be a VERY good pilot to stay out of it's line of fire.
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Post by X-Me » Sun, 22. May 16, 12:50

Hey, hey, thanks for the tips you all :)

Nothing in the current playthrough is 'final' for me. I don't even consider it a playthrough because I ignore most aspects of the game.

So don't worry that I might get bored with the game because I got money with little effort. It's a welcome offset to my having wasted 11 hours totally clueless (twice welcome if you consider that I have little spare time for computer games). Up to that point it felt like I was wasting power on a PC that could otherwise be turned off for all the fun it was providing me.
The millions made through SE have renewed my interest in the game. With them I can quickly try some things. When I'll have learned how to make credits without the quick fix, I will probably restart.

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Sun, 22. May 16, 14:04

Dare I say, that sounds very wise :) So you're treating this "free" run as more of a tutorial, then - makes perfect sense, and certainly no harm in learning some of the basics and nitty-gritties more quickly (especially a that irksome RL(tm) thing gets in the way of gaming time ^^ ).

Regarding restarts: some players like to "role-play" characters, I know I certainly do. It's not even so much true role-play, but rather a chance to experience as many in-game options as possible. It's very common for first playthroughs to focus on using the best tool for every job, and this is natural. However, it means that many ships and weapons and other stuff get overlooked/neglected. That's where this game's replayability really comes into its own for me: I have played multiple games with EACH of the different races and sub-races, allowing me to experience a wide range of play styles (though I don't pretend to have covered them all - even after literally DOZENS of playthroughs!) For example, at first you will almost certainly avoid using Teladi ships, because they are so slow - but who knows, maybe some day you decide to have a go at playing as a Teladi, and then ALL your ships will be slow, allowing you to consider how to compensate for that (tactically, economically, etc.)

Anyhow, have fun, and good hunting! :)
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Post by Triaxx2 » Sun, 22. May 16, 22:17

Indeed. Half the fun is setting yourself goals and limitations. Piracy? No piracy? Trading only? Even now, all this time later, I still suggest reading through Nuklear-slug's three excellent DiD's.

Scion Drakhar who also wrote a couple of excellent stories posted PDF links. They should still work. If not let me know. The stories are great for that, but even now, they're still excellent how to play guides. Somethings will be a little strange though, since they were written in TC and early patches of that game. Still extremely useful though.
Scion Drakhar wrote:Squiddy McSquid Volume 1
Squiddy McSquid Volume 2
Zen and the Art of Running Away
Wanton Use of Nukes

Hope this helps. Feel free to share the links. NS's DiD's taught me how to play the game. As far as I'm concerned everyone should read them.
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